*** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby count2infinity on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:47 pm

vanquish loaf... no contribution at all thus far. I'd much rather keep people around right now that are talking. I'd definitely be willing to move my vote, but I'd much rather keep people talking than not. Keeps the odds in our favor later in the game that they'll slip up somewhere and we can take 'em out then.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby DocEmrick on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:52 pm

Day 2 Vote Count

2 - columbia (SDD, canaan)
2 - Loaf (columbia, count2infinity)
1 - Willie Kool (redwill)

It will take 9 to vanquish.
Last edited by DocEmrick on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:54 pm

I've been training a new person the last two days (she won't be here the rest of the week), so I've been in and out and haven't been up to speed.

What the f is happening? Can I get a bullet point summary?
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:56 pm

newarenanow wrote:I've been training a new person the last two days (she won't be here the rest of the week), so I've been in and out and haven't been up to speed.

What the f is happening? Can I get a bullet point summary?


Yet you have 15-20 posts since yesterday morning :pop:
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:56 pm

vanquish WK

I'm going to go off of what I was thinking earlier. I think loaf is just another blue, and I don't get the columbia vote at all.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby DocEmrick on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:58 pm

Day 2 Vote Count

2 - columbia (SDD, canaan)
2 - Loaf (columbia, count2infinity)
2 - Willie Kool (redwill, shafnutz05)

It will take 9 to vanquish.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:12 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:I've been training a new person the last two days (she won't be here the rest of the week), so I've been in and out and haven't been up to speed.

What the f is happening? Can I get a bullet point summary?


Yet you have 15-20 posts since yesterday morning :pop:


Yes, when I usually would have 50-60.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby MWB on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:44 pm

Don't really get the Columbia stuff. Sometimes I think a cigar is just a cigar, and Columbia is a cig with lost power. I'd go for loaf or kraftster. Most surprised about Kraft since he usually participates.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby CBear3 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:13 pm

Do we have a time limit today?
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:13 pm

kill WK
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Whoa, lots to catch up on. I read through one time from the start. I like an obhave vote based upon that one time through.

Going to go back again.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby DocEmrick on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:18 pm

Day 2 Vote Count

2 - columbia (SDD, canaan)
2 - Loaf (columbia, count2infinity)
3 - Willie Kool (redwill, shafnutz05, nan)

There is no time limit for Day 2.

It will take 9 to vanquish.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:23 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Not sure how I feel about WK. I agree that, in general, being one of the first to take your vote off a green after a role claim looks pretty guilty.


Explain, please.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:25 pm

Kraftster wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Not sure how I feel about WK. I agree that, in general, being one of the first to take your vote off a green after a role claim looks pretty guilty.


Explain, please.


I've found that sometimes, when a person with votes on them comes out as being a good RP, the red player will be the first person, if possible, to quickly take their vote off of them. Oftentimes, it's because said red player knows for a fact they have to be telling the truth, and want to distance themselves from the vote as quickly as possible.

Someone that isn't as worried or paranoid may be more apt to keep their vote on columbia for a longer period of time, rather than instantly buy it.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Willie Kool on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:27 pm

To me, apart from redwill's posts as Fisher, the two most suspicious posts have been Benny's ulf comment and obhave's comment on her PFiDC vote.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby canaan on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:28 pm

thats pretty shoddy logic, shad. it could be that the people just arent in the thread when a new tidbit of information is dropped.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:29 pm

canaan wrote:thats pretty shoddy logic, shad. it could be that the people just arent in the thread when a new tidbit of information is dropped.


I readily admit that.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby CBear3 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:31 pm

I guess I don't get how everybody can, as Krafster put it, call a cigar a cigar and automatically take columbia's word for it...but at the same time throw WK under the bus for believing it first, especially when we were only a couple votes away from killing off the supposed Assassin.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Willie Kool on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:32 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
Kraftster wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Not sure how I feel about WK. I agree that, in general, being one of the first to take your vote off a green after a role claim looks pretty guilty.


Explain, please.


I've found that sometimes, when a person with votes on them comes out as being a good RP, the red player will be the first person, if possible, to quickly take their vote off of them. Oftentimes, it's because said red player knows for a fact they have to be telling the truth, and want to distance themselves from the vote as quickly as possible.

Someone that isn't as worried or paranoid may be more apt to keep their vote on columbia for a longer period of time, rather than instantly buy it.

I had just voted for him, clicked back to the thread, and saw his claim. So I took my vote off. After what happened last game with rel forcing through a vote when MWB wanted us to wait to end the day, I wanted my vote off ASAP.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:34 pm

Willie Kool wrote:I had just voted for him, clicked back to the thread, and saw his claim. So I took my vote off. After what happened last game with rel forcing through a vote when MWB wanted us to wait to end the day, I wanted my vote off ASAP.


That's believable.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Kaizer on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:48 pm

still nothing eh?

vanquish loaf
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby MWB on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:48 pm

And then there was one.... So is loaf going to say anything? If not, that's where I'm voting.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby DocEmrick on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:52 pm

Day 2 Vote Count

2 - columbia (SDD, canaan)
3 - Loaf (columbia, count2infinity, Kaizer)
3 - Willie Kool (redwill, shafnutz05, nan)

There is no time limit for Day 2.

It will take 9 to vanquish.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:03 pm

canaan wrote:let me 'splain...

if you were a red and you were up against the wall, what would you do?

a.) role claim blue and brush it off as no big deal/off me if you must.
b.) role claim green

role claiming blue changes no opinion of the village early in the game because its an "oh well, were getting the game moving" move. doesnt help a red at this point.

going under the idea of option b...

if you were to role claim a green, which would you choose?
a.) angel
b.) seer
c.) the vig

role claiming the angel is the most base level defense and is meant to bring out the other angel (lolomg the real angel will come out and out himself) or a desperate attempt to gain instant trust.

role claiming the seer is dumb, unless you actually are the seer because it pretty much is a death warrant.

role claiming the vig (or assassin, in this instance) leads to a specific level of pull back from the village, without really warranting a response from the reds. more so than not, the vig will kill greens/blues along the way because of the percentages. add also, the role is easily brushed off by the village as being plausible because it isnt nearly as important. its the best move for a desperate player.


...if that makes sense.

columbia, if we believe him, is blue. if this is an interesting early desperate gambit, then he is a red that slipped through a hearty random vote.


Just some comments on this because I am struggling to understand the case against columbia.

This post does not seem to take into account the variables that can exist when you are a red facing a decision about what to claim. First day vs. fifth day, full compliment of reds vs. one down, number of votes on the player, personal playing style, etc., etc. All of these impact the role claim decision.

If you're a red on day 1 you are really looking at choosing between upside of outing a green or making a claim that will keep you around the longest.

Angel - is the safest move. There is more to it than hoping for the real angel coming out (which I agree is a very base way of looking at it). Most importantly, when you survive that night phase, you have a built in explanation for why you were not killed ("reds figured I protected myself"). That explanation can buy you at least a couple days usually before it starts to generation too much questioning. Alternatively, you get the angel to come out. One can reasonably debate whether exchanging a red for an ID on the angel is worthwhile (especially since its no guarantee that the kill on the angel will be timed correctly), but there's certainly some value to it. So, I think the angel guarantees at least one more day, probably more, or it guarantees ID'ing a green. A win-win, so to speak.

Seer - this is high risk/high reward, heavily weighted toward the high risk side in this particular context (Day 1). Seer is very unlikely to come out on Day 1 to challenge in a large game; however, if there's no blocked kill attempt that night, you're basically doomed because the reds are definitely going to be taking a shot at the seer. Likely result here is one extra night and remote possibility of the seer coming out.

Vig - this is high risk/low reward. First of all, the village is least attached the vig so some may be inclined to just push forward with vote (not on Day 1 situation, though). Adding to the risk is the fact that the real vig is likely to take a shot at the claimed vig the night after the claim. What is to be accomplished this? The vig comes out -- no big deal, I would never trade a red for the vig. The vig doesn't come out and you make it into the night only to be killed that night by the vig who can shoot freely at you. You focus on it requiring no further action from the reds, I assume to mean that you can explain your survival by saying that there was no need for the reds to shoot at you, but the move does require further action from the real vig. Even if the vig is asleep at the switch, the vig is always dispensable if need be, so you haven't even bought yourself much protection from the village.

I see no good reason to claim vig unless you have a save.

With this in mind, columbia's role claim, to me, seems to be legitimate.
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Re: *** Inception Warz *** Game Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:07 pm

On that note, I despise that "legit" is becoming a word. This game is legitimately confusing vs. This game is "legit confusing." Makes me want to stab my eyes (when reading) or ears (when hearing) with pens.
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