Politics... have at it!!!

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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:49 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It also proved surgical were almost basically useless as well. Massive study shows 20 less cases.

Also, I don’t remember any mask mandates saying don’t wear such and such mask. They said they all work. Which is laughably stupid and now basically confirmed.


Yeah, you're right, CDC and WOW definitely said "they all work." There has been no literature anywhere clearly demonstrating the differences, or encouraging anyone to wear a properly fitted mask, or double mask. That's why surgeons just tie t-shirts around their faces; same thing for sure!

Keep in mind that the intervention group was regularly coming into contact with maskless individuals. Pretty sure that's not the selling point of mask wearing (which again, definitely has not been crystal clear since day one). But extrapolate away!

From the study: "The total impact with near-universal masking–perhaps achievable with alternative strategies or stricter enforcement–may be several times larger than our 10% estimate." "Where achievable, universal mask adoption is likely to have still larger impacts."



The main reason surgeons use them is to protect from blood splatter and such. RCTs have shown they don’t prevent much in the way of aerosol contamination.

Also, their study didn’t find that benefit and one would have to run a universal masking RCT to actually be able to infer that result. Otherwise they are just pulling **** out of their asses since their results aren’t even significant anyway.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:56 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/sailorroosco ... 0155124737

No current evidence it evades the vaccines.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:45 pm

Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It also proved surgical were almost basically useless as well. Massive study shows 20 less cases.

Also, I don’t remember any mask mandates saying don’t wear such and such mask. They said they all work. Which is laughably stupid and now basically confirmed.


Yeah, you're right, CDC and WOW definitely said "they all work." There has been no literature anywhere clearly demonstrating the differences, or encouraging anyone to wear a properly fitted mask, or double mask. That's why surgeons just tie t-shirts around their faces; same thing for sure!

Keep in mind that the intervention group was regularly coming into contact with maskless individuals. Pretty sure that's not the selling point of mask wearing (which again, definitely has not been crystal clear since day one). But extrapolate away!

From the study: "The total impact with near-universal masking–perhaps achievable with alternative strategies or stricter enforcement–may be several times larger than our 10% estimate." "Where achievable, universal mask adoption is likely to have still larger impacts."



The main reason surgeons use them is to protect from blood splatter and such. RCTs have shown they don’t prevent much in the way of aerosol contamination.

Also, their study didn’t find that benefit and one would have to run a universal masking RCT to actually be able to infer that result. Otherwise they are just pulling **** out of their asses since their results aren’t even significant anyway.


Pretty mind blowing that you take RCT’s at face value when literally in the results they tell you not to.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:07 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It also proved surgical were almost basically useless as well. Massive study shows 20 less cases.

Also, I don’t remember any mask mandates saying don’t wear such and such mask. They said they all work. Which is laughably stupid and now basically confirmed.


Yeah, you're right, CDC and WOW definitely said "they all work." There has been no literature anywhere clearly demonstrating the differences, or encouraging anyone to wear a properly fitted mask, or double mask. That's why surgeons just tie t-shirts around their faces; same thing for sure!

Keep in mind that the intervention group was regularly coming into contact with maskless individuals. Pretty sure that's not the selling point of mask wearing (which again, definitely has not been crystal clear since day one). But extrapolate away!

From the study: "The total impact with near-universal masking–perhaps achievable with alternative strategies or stricter enforcement–may be several times larger than our 10% estimate." "Where achievable, universal mask adoption is likely to have still larger impacts."



The main reason surgeons use them is to protect from blood splatter and such. RCTs have shown they don’t prevent much in the way of aerosol contamination.

Also, their study didn’t find that benefit and one would have to run a universal masking RCT to actually be able to infer that result. Otherwise they are just pulling **** out of their asses since their results aren’t even significant anyway.


Pretty mind blowing that you take RCT’s at face value when literally in the results they tell you not to.



How dare I repeat what a Staff Scientist of Infectious Diseases at the NIH says.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:52 pm

Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It also proved surgical were almost basically useless as well. Massive study shows 20 less cases.

Also, I don’t remember any mask mandates saying don’t wear such and such mask. They said they all work. Which is laughably stupid and now basically confirmed.


Yeah, you're right, CDC and WOW definitely said "they all work." There has been no literature anywhere clearly demonstrating the differences, or encouraging anyone to wear a properly fitted mask, or double mask. That's why surgeons just tie t-shirts around their faces; same thing for sure!

Keep in mind that the intervention group was regularly coming into contact with maskless individuals. Pretty sure that's not the selling point of mask wearing (which again, definitely has not been crystal clear since day one). But extrapolate away!

From the study: "The total impact with near-universal masking–perhaps achievable with alternative strategies or stricter enforcement–may be several times larger than our 10% estimate." "Where achievable, universal mask adoption is likely to have still larger impacts."



The main reason surgeons use them is to protect from blood splatter and such. RCTs have shown they don’t prevent much in the way of aerosol contamination.

Also, their study didn’t find that benefit and one would have to run a universal masking RCT to actually be able to infer that result. Otherwise they are just pulling **** out of their asses since their results aren’t even significant anyway.


Pretty mind blowing that you take RCT’s at face value when literally in the results they tell you not to.



How dare I repeat what a Staff Scientist of Infectious Diseases at the NIH says.


It's not that you repeated it, but that you repeated it simply because a) of who said it, and b) you happened to agree with it. Not a very enlightened path to tread there Grunth-dawg. You're better than this. If you want to knee jerk post twitter findings and wildly extrapolate upon them with as little investigation or consideration as possible, you may want to try Parler, they're into that kinda stuff there.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:02 pm

More scientists than her are saying it. Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick with flippant responses like parler. Broaden your horizons beyond Dr. “Dip ****” Ding and the other “Drs.” Of hysteria.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:04 pm

You peg me as someone that thinks Dr. ding is trustworthy.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:48 pm

Grunthy wrote:More scientists than her are saying it. Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick with flippant responses like parler. Broaden your horizons beyond Dr. “Dip ****” Ding and the other “Drs.” Of hysteria.


Hahaha, who the F is Dr. Ding? What are you talking about? "More scientists than her are saying it." How many more? 10? 10,000? How does this support your argument in any substantive way? How should I broaden my horizons? By posting hot takes from twitter accounts that fuel my confirmation bias? No thanks.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby interstorm on Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:04 pm

Lol - are people here still whining about having to wear masks? What is this, April 2020? C'mon, get over it - not a big deal and yeah, different types of masks have different efficacies - but what are public health officials supposed to say, "mandate for (more expensive) N95 masks only" - especially when they were in short supply for so long?

Those who throw such tantrums and fits over something really not that inconvenient - you just look like a spoiled, nasty and rotten man-(or woman)-child.

But this study says, and that study says...you can find a study to support whatever position you want (I suppose there are even "studies" that conclude the world is flat). Just stop the noise, do what helps your fellow countrymen (we actually ARE better together - united we stand, divided we fall and all that) and put your effort into actually finding a meaningful target to pressure change. I'd suggest protecting voting rights and ending gerrymandering - doesn't matter which side of the aisle you are on but a lot can (and should) be done to modernize our democratic infrastructure and ensure every voice gets heard. Just because one's group now might not be marginalized doesn't mean it won't in the future. Similarly today's political ally could be tomorrow's foe. By fighting for and protecting everyone - you fight for and protect yourself.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:03 pm

It is a free country still. I can say, correctly, that surgical and cloth masks add little benefit (have always said properly fitted KN95 or equivalent can work). We should be pushing actual hospital preventatives through testing and authorization like Paxlovid instead of pushing something that prevented like 20 cases out of 300k people.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:13 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/excel_wang/s ... 8317714432


Using different statistical methods and similar methods from the study. Read the thread. It is informative whether you believe surgical/cloth masks work or not.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:43 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/MonicaGandhi ... 8194069504

All mild cases or asymptomatic so far being reported from known cases. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for hysteria about omicron.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:18 pm

https://www.samrc.ac.za/news/tshwane-di ... tures?s=09


Preliminary hospital data is possibly showing Omicron to be less severe. *Crosses fingers*
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:40 pm

Grunthy wrote:It is a free country still. I can say, correctly, that surgical and cloth masks add little benefit (have always said properly fitted KN95 or equivalent can work). We should be pushing actual hospital preventatives through testing and authorization like Paxlovid instead of pushing something that prevented like 20 cases out of 300k people.


Just out of curiosity Grunthy, what rational steps do you take to check yourself before posting your messianic medical findings to a small hockey message board and wrecking yourself? I’m willing to bet the answer is no steps.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It is a free country still. I can say, correctly, that surgical and cloth masks add little benefit (have always said properly fitted KN95 or equivalent can work). We should be pushing actual hospital preventatives through testing and authorization like Paxlovid instead of pushing something that prevented like 20 cases out of 300k people.


Just out of curiosity Grunthy, what rational steps do you take to check yourself before posting your messianic medical findings to a small hockey message board and wrecking yourself? I’m willing to bet the answer is no steps.


Same steps that everyone, like you and others, go through.

How am I wrecking myself? Is it just your arbitrary high horse of **** that says I am?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:47 pm

Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It is a free country still. I can say, correctly, that surgical and cloth masks add little benefit (have always said properly fitted KN95 or equivalent can work). We should be pushing actual hospital preventatives through testing and authorization like Paxlovid instead of pushing something that prevented like 20 cases out of 300k people.


Just out of curiosity Grunthy, what rational steps do you take to check yourself before posting your messianic medical findings to a small hockey message board and wrecking yourself? I’m willing to bet the answer is no steps.


Same steps that everyone, like you and others, go through.

How am I wrecking myself? Is it just your arbitrary high horse of **** that says I am?


It just seems odd that you're posting studies and twitter feeds saying x, y, and z, so you clearly think you know what you're talking about, but you can't for some reason grasp that mask mandates are a cheap and easy thing that everyone can do to decrease unnecessary spread and subsequent fallout. It's really as simple as that. It's not the end all be all of covid prevention, yet you act like it is. Mask usage as measured in your landmark study was never suggested to work, so I'm not sure how you could possibly view it as evidence in support of, or worse yet, in confirmation of your beliefs. If you're going to be the savior of personal liberty on this message board sans 7+ years in med school, at least try to be reasonable about the veracity of your opinions before presenting them as fact as the world attempts to solve a global pandemic. That would be the much more responsible thing to do rather than sharing twitter posts as you read them because, as you say, "a lot of doctors are saying it." Do not see this in your infinite wisdom?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:59 pm

Actually there is a lot of gray area to answers when dealing with the real world. I don’t try to present as fact, just statistical analysis done by experts who have their own opinions.

Your entire drawn out post could have been summarized.

“I have nothing of substance to back up my claims or my opinion other than you are wrong because my high horse told me so.”
Last edited by Grunthy on Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:04 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It is a free country still. I can say, correctly, that surgical and cloth masks add little benefit (have always said properly fitted KN95 or equivalent can work). We should be pushing actual hospital preventatives through testing and authorization like Paxlovid instead of pushing something that prevented like 20 cases out of 300k people.


Just out of curiosity Grunthy, what rational steps do you take to check yourself before posting your messianic medical findings to a small hockey message board and wrecking yourself? I’m willing to bet the answer is no steps.


Same steps that everyone, like you and others, go through.

How am I wrecking myself? Is it just your arbitrary high horse of **** that says I am?


It just seems odd that you're posting studies and twitter feeds saying x, y, and z, so you clearly think you know what you're talking about, but you can't for some reason grasp that mask mandates are a cheap and easy thing that everyone can do to decrease unnecessary spread and subsequent fallout. It's really as simple as that. It's not the end all be all of covid prevention, yet you act like it is. Mask usage as measured in your landmark study was never suggested to work, so I'm not sure how you could possibly view it as evidence in support of, or worse yet, in confirmation of your beliefs. If you're going to be the savior of personal liberty on this message board sans 7+ years in med school, at least try to be reasonable about the veracity of your opinions before presenting them as fact as the world attempts to solve a global pandemic. That would be the much more responsible thing to do rather than sharing twitter posts as you read them because, as you say, "a lot of doctors are saying it." Do not see this in your infinite wisdom?



For once, try to talk to the data presented to you and not be condescending to the messenger.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:32 am

Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:It is a free country still. I can say, correctly, that surgical and cloth masks add little benefit (have always said properly fitted KN95 or equivalent can work). We should be pushing actual hospital preventatives through testing and authorization like Paxlovid instead of pushing something that prevented like 20 cases out of 300k people.


Just out of curiosity Grunthy, what rational steps do you take to check yourself before posting your messianic medical findings to a small hockey message board and wrecking yourself? I’m willing to bet the answer is no steps.


Same steps that everyone, like you and others, go through.

How am I wrecking myself? Is it just your arbitrary high horse of **** that says I am?


It just seems odd that you're posting studies and twitter feeds saying x, y, and z, so you clearly think you know what you're talking about, but you can't for some reason grasp that mask mandates are a cheap and easy thing that everyone can do to decrease unnecessary spread and subsequent fallout. It's really as simple as that. It's not the end all be all of covid prevention, yet you act like it is. Mask usage as measured in your landmark study was never suggested to work, so I'm not sure how you could possibly view it as evidence in support of, or worse yet, in confirmation of your beliefs. If you're going to be the savior of personal liberty on this message board sans 7+ years in med school, at least try to be reasonable about the veracity of your opinions before presenting them as fact as the world attempts to solve a global pandemic. That would be the much more responsible thing to do rather than sharing twitter posts as you read them because, as you say, "a lot of doctors are saying it." Do not see this in your infinite wisdom?



For once, try to talk to the data presented to you and not be condescending to the messenger.


That’s cute Grunthy. Unfortunately you can’t be Mr. Data if you don’t even take the time to read the studies that you post. Data is dangerous when presented with improper context/partial analysis, and you seem to have a fixation on doing exactly that so long as the conclusion aligns with your views. Armchair virology is probably not a good idea for someone with an agenda.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:06 am

theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Just out of curiosity Grunthy, what rational steps do you take to check yourself before posting your messianic medical findings to a small hockey message board and wrecking yourself? I’m willing to bet the answer is no steps.


Same steps that everyone, like you and others, go through.

How am I wrecking myself? Is it just your arbitrary high horse of **** that says I am?


It just seems odd that you're posting studies and twitter feeds saying x, y, and z, so you clearly think you know what you're talking about, but you can't for some reason grasp that mask mandates are a cheap and easy thing that everyone can do to decrease unnecessary spread and subsequent fallout. It's really as simple as that. It's not the end all be all of covid prevention, yet you act like it is. Mask usage as measured in your landmark study was never suggested to work, so I'm not sure how you could possibly view it as evidence in support of, or worse yet, in confirmation of your beliefs. If you're going to be the savior of personal liberty on this message board sans 7+ years in med school, at least try to be reasonable about the veracity of your opinions before presenting them as fact as the world attempts to solve a global pandemic. That would be the much more responsible thing to do rather than sharing twitter posts as you read them because, as you say, "a lot of doctors are saying it." Do not see this in your infinite wisdom?



For once, try to talk to the data presented to you and not be condescending to the messenger.


That’s cute Grunthy. Unfortunately you can’t be Mr. Data if you don’t even take the time to read the studies that you post. Data is dangerous when presented with improper context/partial analysis, and you seem to have a fixation on doing exactly that so long as the conclusion aligns with your views. Armchair virology is probably not a good idea for someone with an agenda.



I did read them and my conclusions are based on the data presented. Now try again to not attack the messenger. If you attack the messenger again I will just assume you have nothing of value to offer and you believe your narrative is falling apart and are just lashing out in a child-like anger. Your choice. Be an adult and actually engage respectively or continue to be a whiny little **** like Trump.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:19 am

I have certifications in lean manufacturing and six sigma. So I can do data analysis. So again, Act like an adult instead of a child throwing a temper tantrum when things get difficult for you.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:52 am

https://www.cityam.com/anxiously-optimi ... dly-delta/


So far no deaths have been reported from confirmed omicron cases.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:21 pm

Grunthy wrote:
I did read them and my conclusions are based on the data presented. Now try again to not attack the messenger. If you attack the messenger again I will just assume you have nothing of value to offer and you believe your narrative is falling apart and are just lashing out in a child-like anger. Your choice. Be an adult and actually engage respectively or continue to be a whiny little **** like Trump.


Incredible, haha. You think my argument is falling apart? Are you aware that anyone can just go back and read our exchanges? Maybe you should?

Lemme get this right: you read the study, but you didn't notice that masks weren't being worn as intended (as noted by the authors of the study), and when alerted to this fact you ignored it because (to paraphrase) they weren't doing a study on how many people need to wear masks for them to be effective. Then, instead of taking the data at face value like a normal person, you went on to conclude that not only do cloth masks not work, but hardly any masks work, and that it was an open and shut case. And you want me to take literally anything you say seriously? I mean, c'mon dude, you're not even trying to be partial.

Congratulations on being able to read charts, clearly you still need assistance with interpreting them, as well as the tone of replies. You can pretend that I'm whining and throwing a temper tantrum if that makes you feel better about the absurdity of your claims. I think the more adult thing to do would be to stop posting random twitter posts to a hockey message board like you're doing some kind of public service when in fact you're just regurgitating bits of information that you don't understand nor wish to understand.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:15 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Grunthy wrote:
I did read them and my conclusions are based on the data presented. Now try again to not attack the messenger. If you attack the messenger again I will just assume you have nothing of value to offer and you believe your narrative is falling apart and are just lashing out in a child-like anger. Your choice. Be an adult and actually engage respectively or continue to be a whiny little **** like Trump.


Incredible, haha. You think my argument is falling apart? Are you aware that anyone can just go back and read our exchanges? Maybe you should?

Lemme get this right: you read the study, but you didn't notice that masks weren't being worn as intended (as noted by the authors of the study), and when alerted to this fact you ignored it because (to paraphrase) they weren't doing a study on how many people need to wear masks for them to be effective. Then, instead of taking the data at face value like a normal person, you went on to conclude that not only do cloth masks not work, but hardly any masks work, and that it was an open and shut case. And you want me to take literally anything you say seriously? I mean, c'mon dude, you're not even trying to be partial.

Congratulations on being able to read charts, clearly you still need assistance with interpreting them, as well as the tone of replies. You can pretend that I'm whining and throwing a temper tantrum if that makes you feel better about the absurdity of your claims. I think the more adult thing to do would be to stop posting random twitter posts to a hockey message board like you're doing some kind of public service when in fact you're just regurgitating bits of information that you don't understand nor wish to understand.



Weren’t being worn as intended lol. Did you notice that the color of the “made” a difference in their study? Or did you miss that part because you are blinded by who posted it? Why did you skip over the post I showed doing several methods of statistical analysis?

Where did I say no masks work? Again you must have difficultly interpreting written words because I said N95 style masks do work.

Maybe next time before you try to insult (If that is what you can call it), actually try reading. It is obvious your are a pile of trash human because I asked several times to actually refute/interpret/engage in conversation about presented material instead of attacking the messenger. It is obvious you are compensating for something. So... try again Mr. Trump to actually engage in a civil manner.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Grunthy on Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:23 pm

Also… it is a message board. Get used to short replies and not everything being a dissertation on the given subject.
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