George R.R. Martin

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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:08 pm

eddysnake wrote:
DelPen wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
DelPen wrote:3/4 through ball of beasts. With parts kind of already touched on in season 4 I don't see how they get more than 1 season out of the two books. Winds of Winter better be amazing.

Thoughts in the spoiler tag
Spoiler:
regarding who will be up to speed by the end of next season:

definitely:
-jamie: not much to do except take river run back since he already set Brienne out
-sansa (she's already there, right?): The last she does is come down from the Eyrie so they need to create something for her to do
-bran: he gets to the caves and starts looking through the trees, not much to do
-brienne: already set out and met Pod, just needs to meet up with the bloody mummers and Thoros's crew and Stoneheart

probably:
-arya: she has a pretty good story arc in Braavos but it can all be resolved
-sam: goes to the Citadel, not much else
-theon and the boltons: already took Moat Cailin, just the wedding and Winterfell
-jon snow: not a lot left either there, they changed up so much little things but again, not a lot to do except manage wildlings coming across the wall
-stannis: go to wall, leave wall, blizzard, yawn.

iffy:
-dany (please please please skip the martell suitor): there's not much left for her to do but I think they will need to pace it for Tyrion's sake considering there is the big war in Meereen in WoW. will probably see less of her or just invent something as filler, I'm trying to think of a bigger budget scene though than Drogon in the fighting pit
-tyrion (mereen is a long way for him to go in one season, but if he doesn't get there next year, how the hell are they going to stretch the dany stuff out? playing the "who should i marry" game for 10+ episodes isn't going to cut it): agree, Pentos and the journey down the Ryhone should be enough, there's a lot to do with Griff and Aegon and flushing that out and it's going to be important. End his story with Jorah finding him at the brothel and then you have the trip to Mereen and slavery, et.
-cersei (though i think they'd do well to cram her whole arc into one season. otherwise, king's landing is going to be agonizing to watch).: They can cut a ton of filler. They can highlight her stupid decisions with one small council meeting, she plots to frame Margery quickly, don't need a lot of detail, and then her problems with the High Septon. You can probably devote 10-15 minutes an episode on average to the crap in Kings Landing and cover all of it adequately.


and regarding the cersei story...i suppose there's little doubt who robert strong is at this point.: that would make a decent ending to the season, the walk of shame and Robert Strong standing there

Overall though, everything can be sorted out except for Mereen only because Tyrion does so much without a lot of text because Martin doesn't add stupid, useless filler. and if you don't get him to Mereen you can't finish Dany's story in one season.

Not sure how much they will focus on Dorne, I think they are a red herring for now, unless there's something huge involving Myrcella they can skip all of that stuff.


the show is really going out on it's own spoiling things in the book down the road (and those we haven't found out yet). Wonder how that will play out in future books?

Spoiler:
with Jojen being killed, is that GRRM basically admitting that nothing will continue to happen with his character until he dies in the book?


Spoiler:
Jojen even said as much that they are essentially wating to die in the caves anyways. There's no way to leave since it's surrounded by white walkers buried in the snow. Jojen is fine accepting his fate, Mira not so much it seems so maybe she does something still
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:49 pm

This turned six late last month. Pretty cool.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:15 pm

In regards to Dorne going forward...
Spoiler:
There was a potential casting leak recently that seemed to suggest that it will feature a majority of the characters from the book. 2 characters of note *not* in that list, Arianne and Quentyn.

Doesn't necessarily mean that they are out or that any of that was real so take it fwiw.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:42 pm

the wicked child wrote:In regards to Dorne going forward...
Spoiler:
There was a potential casting leak recently that seemed to suggest that it will feature a majority of the characters from the book. 2 characters of note *not* in that list, Arianne and Quentyn.

Doesn't necessarily mean that they are out or that any of that was real so take it fwiw.


Spoiler:
The only thing Dorne helps set up that they will probably need to figure out is a member of the King's Guard being killed to allow Robert Strong to get a white cloak. But everything else is all a bit hazy and could be useless and/or boring.

I think if they don't finish Cersei's story in S5 they can push Dorne stuff to S6 including Quentin's trip to Mereen
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby shmenguin on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:27 pm

Spoiler:
wasn't marcella accidentally mutilated in dorne, too?

doran may be an important character down the road, so if they're mercifully sparing us the quentyn story, i can see the need to still set up prince doran.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:30 pm

I read an interesting blog post the other day that was theorizing what Dorne's ultimate role in the story will be. I mostly agreed with it... If it does go that way, they are very important. Even if it does, I think the show will trim parts out.

I'll post a link later, but basically...
Spoiler:
Doran wants to marry Arianne to Aegon. Of course he doesn't know that Quentyn is bbqed. When Dany comes to Westeros and finds another Targaryen already on the throne, bloody conflict erupts and Dorne bleeds as a result. There's more to it, but not gonna quote the whole article here.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby shmenguin on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:36 pm

whoa, that's a LOT of ground to cover in 2 books.

though since the last book is called. "a dream of spring", and winter hasn't even started yet, i wonder if he's going to skip big chunks of time.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby eddysnake on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:47 pm

Q&A with GRRM on the finale

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/

Was it sort of difficult as an author to kill off two of your major villains, Joffrey and Tywin, in the third book?
I don’t know how to answer some of these questions in a way. The process of writing for me comes from a different part of the brain than the rational one. I don’t know if I believe all this right-brain/left-brain stuff, but I don’t sit down and make decisions like, “Yes I need a decision here, I need something there.” I set the characters in motion, I set the story in motion, and they lead me to certain places. Admittedly, sometimes they lead me down a dead end and I go, “This isn’t going to work, I really painted myself in a corner here, I gotta go back and change this.” But sometimes they lead me to very powerful places.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:04 pm

Not sure how much of a spoiler this would be if you finished Storm of Swords but...

Spoiler:
There was major speculation on the true identity of Coldhands. So seeing as how they didn't use him for the show is that it then? He's just going to sulk outside the cave for two more books?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby shmenguin on Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:20 pm

DelPen wrote:Not sure how much of a spoiler this would be if you finished Storm of Swords but...

Spoiler:
There was major speculation on the true identity of Coldhands. So seeing as how they didn't use him for the show is that it then? He's just going to sulk outside the cave for two more books?


Spoiler:
that's what i was thinking. it would have been more fun for the book readers to have a coldhands vs. the walkers mini arc than to waste time with the night's watch/bran junk
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Spangler on Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:53 pm

Oh man, I have a lot to say.

Regarding Jojen, people on other forums were talking about "Jojen paste". "Wtf is that," I thought. There is a theory that Jojen is dead in the books. Bran had to consume this Werewood seed paste, that looked really strange. Speculation is that Jojen was turned into that paste. Jojen knew when he was going to die, and around this point he started to become more depressed, like he knew it was coming soon. Both Reeds are never mentioned towards the end of Bran's chapters. Sounds ridiculous but the theory has some weight, and with Jojen gone from the show, he couldn't be THAT important in the future books - perhaps he won't be in them at all...

I hated the Tysha reveal in the books with Jaime because it was stupid to mention it at the time. However, I just really liked the line, "Wherever whores go", by Tywin. Tyrion thinking it constantly in ADWD not so much.

This is going to be a totally different experience for me from this point onward. Every big moment in the book has now happened (except one), so I don't care which direction the show takes anymore. If anything, the show will be better than the source material for the next season or two.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Spangler on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:07 pm

To continue my usual rant about the direction of the show in relation to book readers...

I honestly believe the show is in the best hands possible. It makes me frustrated reading book purists act like D&D are the stupidest people imaginable. EVERY major event happened almost exactly or very closely to the books. Anything else was done because scenes can't possibly translate well on screen, or budget limitations.

I've seen countless adaptions of various mediums butchered over the years. GoT is nowhere close to that; it's one of the best adaptions ever made. It's an extremely difficult task that could have been easily ruined from the very beginning. Especially season 2.

To say you are done with the show because of of how terrible it has been handled is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not referring to anyone in here, but I've heard it from people on other sites.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:07 pm

Here is the blog that I referenced earlier: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/

They take a few of the different storylines in ADWD and take a closer look at them. I didn't necessarily agree with all of them, but I found them to be interesting and a good read.

The specific post in regards to Dorne that I was talking about can be read here: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/201 ... -in-blood/ Note that he references the Arianne chapters from AWOW that have been released or read by Martin at conventions.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:10 pm

Spangler wrote:To continue my usual rant about the direction of the show in relation to book readers...

I honestly believe the show is in the best hands possible. It makes me frustrated reading book purists act like D&D are the stupidest people imaginable. EVERY major event happened almost exactly or very closely to the books. Anything else was done because scenes can't possibly translate well on screen, or budget limitations.

I've seen countless adaptions of various mediums butchered over the years. GoT is nowhere close to that; it's one of the best adaptions ever made. It's an extremely difficult task that could have been easily ruined from the very beginning. Especially season 2.

To say you are done with the show because of of how terrible it has been handled is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not referring to anyone in here, but I've heard it from people on other sites.

Yeah. I saw someone make a comment last night that they could defecate out a better adaptation. Yeah, I'm sure.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby shmenguin on Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:08 pm

Spangler wrote:To continue my usual rant about the direction of the show in relation to book readers...

I honestly believe the show is in the best hands possible. It makes me frustrated reading book purists act like D&D are the stupidest people imaginable. EVERY major event happened almost exactly or very closely to the books. Anything else was done because scenes can't possibly translate well on screen, or budget limitations.

I've seen countless adaptions of various mediums butchered over the years. GoT is nowhere close to that; it's one of the best adaptions ever made. It's an extremely difficult task that could have been easily ruined from the very beginning. Especially season 2.

To say you are done with the show because of of how terrible it has been handled is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not referring to anyone in here, but I've heard it from people on other sites.


their writing, aesthetic vision and execution of individual scenes is top notch stuff. their story telling was very weak this year, however. still a great show. i think they just had so much great source material to work with this year, that they just got the yips and fumbled the ball a little.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:51 am

That was a very good episode.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:31 am

I haven't had a "I'm done with this show" moment yet. Sure there have been some really stupid scenes, but overall this is a really good show.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:32 am

In regards to that "missing" scene from the finale...
Spoiler:
Saw an interview with Alex Graves yesterday where he mentioned that Stoneheart was never in the cards for this season. He does not rule out her inclusion in the future, but states that D&D have not yet spilled the beans regarding her inclusion/exclusion.

In retrospect, I guess I understand... the WTF factor would have been amazing, but I guess they felt it would overshadow the other big events late in the episode. I am going to guess that if they do keep her, they won't do the big reveal until Brienne is brought before her. In terms of TV, that may work better than the random appearance earlier.

I'll be pretty annoyed if they decide to leave her out. Not "ZOMG THIS IS THE WURST SHOW EVAH" annoyed, but pretty annoyed.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Kaizer on Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:15 am

My 2 favorites went down in the same episode. Guh
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:25 am

the wicked child wrote:In regards to that "missing" scene from the finale...
Spoiler:
Saw an interview with Alex Graves yesterday where he mentioned that Stoneheart was never in the cards for this season. He does not rule out her inclusion in the future, but states that D&D have not yet spilled the beans regarding her inclusion/exclusion.

In retrospect, I guess I understand... the WTF factor would have been amazing, but I guess they felt it would overshadow the other big events late in the episode. I am going to guess that if they do keep her, they won't do the big reveal until Brienne is brought before her. In terms of TV, that may work better than the random appearance earlier.

I'll be pretty annoyed if they decide to leave her out. Not "ZOMG THIS IS THE WURST SHOW EVAH" annoyed, but pretty annoyed.


Spoiler:
Michelle Fairleigh has a big role in 24 this season, or at least does up to what I've watched. I'm not sure if she would have had time to dedicate to both filming schedules. Leaving her out was fine. It's not like she was pivotal in Storm of Swords, she didn't show up until the Epilogue.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:21 pm

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game- ... -season-5/

Interview with D&D regarding Season 5. Don't think there were any real spoilers, aside from mentioning a region of Westeros that will be featured.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:11 pm

Spoiler:
Image
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:26 pm

the wicked child wrote:http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

Interview with D&D regarding Season 5. Don't think there were any real spoilers, aside from mentioning a region of Westeros that will be featured.


It's going to be funny when the tides turn where the show treads new ground before Martin releases or even writes a draft for the last book and people start comparing the books not being as good as the show.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:35 pm

Based on current plans we've got three seasons to go with the show ending in 2017. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that the show is finished before The Winds of Winter is released.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:39 pm

At this point, I won't be surprised if that happens. Certainly it will be done well before the last book(s).

I am fine with that, things may get ugly though when it comes time to pass him up.
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