Sanchez? Yes. Bautista? Probably. Wigginton? Wah?

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Sanchez? Yes. Bautista? Probably. Wigginton? Wah?

Postby pfim on Wed May 17, 2006 7:45 am

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/06137/690749-194.stm

Ty Wigginton has one good month and he's a better option than Joe Randa, according to Mr. Smizik. Nevermind he's hitting .163 in May.

I saw Wigginton play a few games last month, he looks at least 20 pounds lighter than he did last year.
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Postby PittsburghSportsFan on Wed May 17, 2006 8:18 am

Even though I wouldn't want either on this team, at this point in time, I would take Wiggington over Randa. Randa hasn't done jack since Littlfield decided to bring him back for some strange reason. I'll take a guy with 10 HRS and 31 RBI's (Wiggington) over Randa who is currently batting .221 with one home run in 77 at-bats.

Bautista should stay at third. Of course the Pirates will pick money horribly spent over young talent that's actually putting up numbers. Once Randa is fully healed you will see him back at third and Bautista sent back down.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 17, 2006 8:35 am

Ty Wigginton sucks. You can blame Littlefield for bringing him in, you can't blame him for letting him go. Having a good month doesn't mean you're a good player. He won't be playing when Cantu comes back.
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Postby PittsburghSportsFan on Wed May 17, 2006 9:09 am

pfim wrote:Ty Wigginton sucks. You can blame Littlefield for bringing him in, you can't blame him for letting him go. Having a good month doesn't mean you're a good player. He won't be playing when Cantu comes back.


Once again, I'm not stating Ty Wigginton is good. I don't want either of the two on this team, but I am stating that if I had to choose between Randa and Wigginton at this point in time, I would take Wigginton. I do blame Littlefield for signing Randa this year. I also blame him for signing Burnitz. In my opinion, both signings were pointless and idiotic. When most Pirate fans were having wet dreams after the signings and stating "look out .500 here we come", I was thinking to myself "this is as good as it gets?" You can say the same about Randa that you did about Wigginton.....he "sucks".
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Postby Goalie on Wed May 17, 2006 10:20 pm

As pfim said, Wiggington is hitting .167 in May and the point is not which one you would rather have right now it was about which one you would rather have in the offseason. I really do not think many people or anyone really would have taken Wiggington over Randa this offseason. Now if you want to make the case that the Pirates did not need either one I can agree with that.

Well tonight proved that Humberto Cota is now officially useless to this Pirates team. He was hanging on by a thread by being Perez's personal catcher, which was working out really well for Perez, but with Paulino catching Perez well tonight and Doumit having way more upside than Cota he should be demoted as soon as possible.

The Pirates have many loyal fans but they have a chance to lose a few of them in the near future. If they send Bautista down or sit him and Sanchez down while Randa plays they are going to anger a lot of fans. They need to keep Bautista here, play him in center, use Sanchez at third with Wilson at short. When Casey returns Craig Wilson can play in right field. He can split time with Joe Big Name Free Agent and Randa can play a couple days a week when Sanchez/Wilson need a break.
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Postby Stoosh on Thu May 18, 2006 2:21 am

I emailed Smizik today and questioned the merits of including Wigginton in his batch of third-base options. Basically, my point was that if you stacked Wigginton's Pirate career up against Randa's 2005 performance, it had to be considered an upgrade.

Consider this...over his Pirate career, Wigginton played in 115 games. He batted .237 with 16 doubles, 12 homers and 49 RBIs. On top of that, he patrolled third base in 2005 with an ineptitude that I hadn't seen since Ed Sprague (9 errors in 85 total chances...that's almost an error every nine or ten chances).

I then cited Randa's 2005 numbers, in which he batted .276 in 160 games between Cincy and San Diego. He also hit 43 doubles, 17 homers, and knocked in 68 runs. On top of that, he also committed only 12 errors in 363 chances (at Wigginton's rate, he would've had 38-39 errors).

Based off those numbers - which is what the Pirates really had to evaluate in the decision to let Wigginton go - how could Randa NOT be considered an upgrade at least over Wigginton?

He emailed me back and said that I was crazy for holding Wigginton to some Brooks Robinson-esque standard.

Whatever, Bob. Go cash your Social Security check.

I'm not defending the Randa signing by any means. But unless I was watching a different player than Smizik was, there's no way Wigginton was a better player after 2005 than Randa was. Maybe the team didn't foresee age hitting him like a ton of bricks this year, but that kind of stuff is something the Pirates had no control over (kind of like it did with Lemieux, too). And given his lack of ABs above the AA level, I could understand the merits of starting Bautista in AAA this year because the club expected more from Randa.

It obviously hasn't worked out to this point, but to suggest that Wigginton was a better option after the 2005 season was ludicrous.
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Postby HomerPenguin on Thu May 18, 2006 3:00 am

Stoosh wrote:I'm not defending the Randa signing by any means. But unless I was watching a different player than Smizik was, there's no way Wigginton was a better player after 2005 than Randa was. Maybe the team didn't foresee age hitting him like a ton of bricks this year, but that kind of stuff is something the Pirates had no control over (kind of like it did with Lemieux, too).


Joe Randa will turn 37 before the year 2006 ends. And, to put it mildly, he wasn't exactly the Mario Lemieux of third basemen when he was in his prime. If the Pirates didn't at least CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY that age might hit him hard this year, then the ineptitude of that front office really does know no bounds.

That said, I'd play the f-ing Pirate Parrot at third if it meant staying as far away from Ty Wigginton as possible. What a waste of space.
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Postby Peter on Thu May 18, 2006 9:12 am

Not that you care, but I haven't watched a single game straight through yet this year. Haven't gone to PNC park either. I would usually have been to at least 2 by now.

Has anyone completely lost interest? I can't even name our lineup.

I'm just trying to see if people still care. It's been proven that without a new owner, we're going nowhere. Yes I know it's all been said before.
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Postby PittsburghSportsFan on Thu May 18, 2006 9:50 am

Peter wrote:Not that you care, but I haven't watched a single game straight through yet this year. Haven't gone to PNC park either. I would usually have been to at least 2 by now.

Has anyone completely lost interest? I can't even name our lineup.

I'm just trying to see if people still care. It's been proven that without a new owner, we're going nowhere. Yes I know it's all been said before.


I watch them on TV because they are a Pittsburgh team and it's in my blood to follow and root for all local based teams no matter how bad or good, but I will not give one cent to Kevin McClatchy or that organization. Yeah, I love the view at PNC, the good food, the beer.....but eventually I want to see a good product. I'm not asking for a World Series Champion, but I am asking for a team that competes and oh I don't know, can get above .500. It's LONG overdue.

"WE WILL"...................have another under .500 season. :roll:
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Postby Peter on Thu May 18, 2006 12:57 pm

I think I watched more baseball last year because there was no hockey. I forgot about that. I was also in Baltimore, and the Orioles had a very good Arpil/May/June, so it felt kinda weird to root for a decent team. Then I came to Pittsburgh, ordered extra innings so I could watch them, and they started to suck. WASTE of money. i'll never buy extra innings again.
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Postby Rocco on Thu May 18, 2006 12:59 pm

I can't understand why people post in threads about things to ask if people still care and tell us that they don't care. I guess I should post in every thread and ask if people care about this thread. One would think that the fact people are posting their thoughts about the subject means they care, but I digress.

Oh, and for those who actually care, Jason Bay is alive and well. He's just been sleeping for a few weeks. And he picked a good time to wake up- between the Pirates and studying for the bar, this may have been the summer that drove me to a smack addiction.
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Postby netwolf on Thu May 18, 2006 1:53 pm

Rocco wrote:I can't understand why people post in threads about things to ask if people still care and tell us that they don't care. I guess I should post in every thread and ask if people care about this thread. One would think that the fact people are posting their thoughts about the subject means they care, but I digress.

Oh, and for those who actually care, Jason Bay is alive and well. He's just been sleeping for a few weeks. And he picked a good time to wake up- between the Pirates and studying for the bar, this may have been the summer that drove me to a smack addiction.


I don't care. :P :lol:
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Postby rasbatch on Thu May 18, 2006 2:14 pm

Really I could care less that you don't care. :lol: :lol: :lol: reilly
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Postby Peter on Thu May 18, 2006 3:10 pm

Woah Rocco. Nobody cares.

So it really ticked you off that I asked if anyone cares about the pirates? I was genuinely curious as to who would sit down and watch the hell that is the pirates. This is a pirates thread, of course.

But if you care that I care that nobody cares about the Pirates, then I guess I should take more care in caring about things that people don't care about. I'm very sorry that you don't care that I don't care.
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Postby Goalie on Thu May 18, 2006 9:02 pm

Rocco wrote:I can't understand why people post in threads about things to ask if people still care and tell us that they don't care. I guess I should post in every thread and ask if people care about this thread. One would think that the fact people are posting their thoughts about the subject means they care, but I digress.

Oh, and for those who actually care, Jason Bay is alive and well. He's just been sleeping for a few weeks. And he picked a good time to wake up- between the Pirates and studying for the bar, this may have been the summer that drove me to a smack addiction.


To qoute Tim Benz, "People call my show and stay on hold for 45 minutes to tell me they don't care (about the Pirates)"

People do care but its a lot easier, and more mainstream, to say they don't care. The problem is the Pirates have lost for so long there is no debate on whether they are going in the right direction, they have more talent now than in a long time, because people see no light at the end of the tunnel.

The Pirates have a lot of young pitching, the pitchers have shown flashes of what they can be but its going to take time. Hopefully when the pitching turns the corner the pieces will be in place in the field.

I feel the Pirates are set at three positions for a while, LF, SS, 2B. (Castillo has woken up ala Bay lately, lets move him up in the lineup please)

Like it or not they are going to sink or swim with what they have in the system. Its going to be Paulino or Doumit at catcher. Bautista in CF, 3B, RF, Sanchez is going to play a huge role regardless of whether he starts or plays 3-4 days a week at 3 different positions. McClouth or Duffy (if he quits crying) are going to be given every chance to succeed. Maybe Craig Wilson stays, Brad Eldred has to be given a shot at some point on a regular basis.

I think a lot more people would be behind this team if it was without Burnitz and Randa, something tells me the record would be the same and the light at the end of the tunnel would be starting to come into focus.
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Postby Peter on Fri May 19, 2006 6:19 am

Goalie wrote:
People do care but its a lot easier, and more mainstream, to say they don't care.


Oh, so I'm just saying that I don't care because I want to be cool? Thanks for clarifying that for me. I guess I really do care about the pirates. I'll go buy a ticket right now.
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Postby Goalie on Fri May 19, 2006 9:41 am

Peter wrote:
Goalie wrote:
People do care but its a lot easier, and more mainstream, to say they don't care.


Oh, so I'm just saying that I don't care because I want to be cool? Thanks for clarifying that for me. I guess I really do care about the pirates. I'll go buy a ticket right now.


I am not talking about you in particular, you may or may not care what the Pirates do, on the whole however a good chunk of the people constantly talking about how they do not care about the Pirates are lying.

They are covering up their frustation with apathy.
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