714

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714

Postby Draftnik on Sat May 20, 2006 4:47 pm

Bravo Barry Bonds. Hopefully he can get healthy and catch/pass Aaron.
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Postby Bowser on Sat May 20, 2006 4:54 pm

and I'll be rooting for some lunatic pitcher to knock him out for his career.
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Postby PittsburghSportsFan on Sat May 20, 2006 5:15 pm

Bowser wrote:and I'll be rooting for some lunatic pitcher to knock him out for his career.


I second that.
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Postby Daniel on Sat May 20, 2006 5:18 pm

Bowser wrote:and I'll be rooting for some lunatic pitcher to knock him out for his career.


Let me see if I understand your point. Bonds breaks no baseball rules and you want his career ended because you don't like him?
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Postby PittsburghSportsFan on Sat May 20, 2006 5:42 pm

I remember a time when pitchers owned the plate. Do you? If you want to put on 500 pounds of armor and hug the plate, expect to get hit. Only difference, back in the day pitchers would aim for your skull.
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Postby Bowser on Sat May 20, 2006 6:00 pm

I don't know why more pitchers don't go "Russ Springer" on Bonds. Barry isn't alone in the laughable armor display. I'd like to know when MLB is going to enforce the rule book when it comes to these protective guards on the arm.

I can understand the ankle/shin guards but the elbow pads Bonds and Jason Kendall is just stupid.

I have no respect for the 1998-present performance numbers recorded by Bonds. There is no doubt in my mind that he took steroids and other performance enhancing drugs to hit the long ball.

Why should I or anyone else need a test result that MLB can't even find most of the time against Bonds or any other established player.
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Postby Daniel on Sat May 20, 2006 8:56 pm

Bowser wrote:I have no respect for the 1998-present performance numbers recorded by Bonds. There is no doubt in my mind that he took steroids and other performance enhancing drugs to hit the long ball.


Who cares, it wasn't against MLB rules. Why not look at Maris? He had one great year and how many others? He had a 12 year career and 275 homers. Almost 1/4th in one year. He must have been doping it up in 1961.

Bowser wrote:Why should I or anyone else need a test result that MLB can't even find most of the time against Bonds or any other established player.


Perhaps they can't find it because those players aren't using? Or, are we a nation where you are guilty before proven innocent?
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Postby netwolf on Sat May 20, 2006 10:47 pm

I think everyone pretty much knows that Bonds juiced, but I think it's preety shortsighted for everyone to be singling him out. It's not like he's the only guy to have ever taken the needle. No one cared about steroids and the sanctity of baseball when McGwire and Sosa were making their run and "reviving the game." MLB knew what was going on and did nothing. That's the same as saying it was okay.

Bonds gets singled out because he's a jerk and isn't a media darling. Sosa got caught redhanded with a corked bat and he was never vilified to this degree because he's lovable Sammy Sosa.

Corked bats and steroids are both cheating. Sosa was proven to be a cheater. While is is almsot certain that Bonds used, it has never been proven.
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Postby MrKnowNothing on Sat May 20, 2006 10:53 pm

I hate the steroid controversy. Baseball made their bed with this whole thing 10 or 15 years ago and now they should have to lie in it. No blame should really go on the players because it wasn't even illegal for the longest time, and it isn't their fault than MLB can't enforce its rules.

MLB is a complete and total joke anyways.

I think the only way they can fix this is if they let players do whatever they want to improve themselves but warn them about the negative side effects of steroids (as if they didn't know). I believe that steroid use could be so engrained in the league that they won't be able to get rid of all of it.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun May 21, 2006 12:14 pm

Ruth and Aaron never faced pitchers on the juice. Gammons, Olney, Stark, etc from ESPN have always said more pitchers were juicing than people realize.

Bonds would have had over 1,000 homers if he were on the juice his entire career like McGuire.

I think the contempt for this issue should be directed at Selig and MLB. As others have said they encouraged juicing by their lack of action. The FBI came to MLB with evidence on McGuire and Selig wanted nothing to do with it. MLB is hanging Bonds out to dry by making him take all the bullets for their mess.

I love how MLB fans are 100% certain Pujols is clean yet Olympic athletes in Balco's stable were able to evade juice detection for years and the WADA testing is infinitely more rigorous than MLB's joke testing. It is unfortunate all MLB players will be painted with the same brush of suspicion, but that is all MLB's fault, not Barry Bonds.
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Postby JS© on Sun May 21, 2006 1:30 pm

Daniel wrote:
Bowser wrote:and I'll be rooting for some lunatic pitcher to knock him out for his career.


Let me see if I understand your point. Bonds breaks no baseball rules and you want his career ended because you don't like him?


Two reasons why I didn't want to see him break 714, or why I don't want to see him break 755.

reason one
reason two

Just because MLB had a very lax 'roid policy at the time does not make what he did right. Wait a sec, I believe MLB's policy is still a joke. If I read correctly, there's still a ton of stuff that they do not test for. Then again, what do I care? 40% of the top 10 HR hitters of all time have been linked to taking the juice.

And I'll be that Pujols is clean when I believe that he is actually 26 :wink:
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Postby Daniel on Sun May 21, 2006 8:09 pm

JS© wrote:Just because MLB had a very lax 'roid policy at the time does not make what he did right. Wait a sec, I believe MLB's policy is still a joke. If I read correctly, there's still a ton of stuff that they do not test for. Then again, what do I care? 40% of the top 10 HR hitters of all time have been linked to taking the juice.


It isn't a question of if it is morally right, but within the existing rules.

MLB policy is a joke, and always has been. However, blaming a player for doing something that doesn't break MLB rules is misguided, in my opinion. That would be like blaming a pitcher for having good stats because the mounds were lowered.

What kind of drugs was Maris using in '61 when he hit almost 25% of his career homeruns? How many laws did Babe Ruth break in the prohibition era of his career?
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Postby Bowser on Sun May 21, 2006 8:49 pm

Daniel - steroids are illegal in America. I don't know the answer to this question but has the FDA given clearance for doctors to prescribe things like Bonds was taking with Balco?
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Postby Draftnik on Sun May 21, 2006 9:13 pm

Bowser wrote:Daniel - steroids are illegal in America. I don't know the answer to this question but has the FDA given clearance for doctors to prescribe things like Bonds was taking with Balco?


If the mere fact steroids are illegal is deterrent enough to prevent athletes from using them why do all the major sports leagues prohibit them and allegedly test their players for them? Why does the USOC subject their athletes to WADA testing?

Bonds is the red herring here. He is merely a player. It is not his nor any players' responsibility to establish and uphold the integrity of the sport. That responsibility rests with Selig and the MLB commissioners office. That is the primary reason the post was established. MLB is perfectly content for you and other fans to villify Bonds (the diversion) while the real criminal element (MLB/Selig) goes unpunished.
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Postby Daniel on Sun May 21, 2006 9:21 pm

Bowser wrote:Daniel - steroids are illegal in America. I don't know the answer to this question but has the FDA given clearance for doctors to prescribe things like Bonds was taking with Balco?


So, now this is a legal issue. If you want to talk about breaking laws, why not discuss any other athlete who has broken the law? Shall we take out all Hall of Famers who broke the law? Like Babe Ruth and every other prohibition Hall of Famer who drank alcohol? How about Ty Cobb? I have read is was a piece of work. How many laws did he break?

I don't know if the FDA has given clearance, but has Bonds been convicted of illegal steroid use? Has he even been indicted? Again, innocent until proven guilty.
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Postby Bowser on Sun May 21, 2006 9:22 pm

Draftnik - I agree, Bonds should not be the only player or person being investigated. If Mitchell doesn't finger Selig and Fehr for the steroid era, all of this talk means nothing.
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Postby netwolf on Sun May 21, 2006 9:31 pm

Since MLB turned a blind eye to what was going on because the McGwire/Sosa chase rivived baseball, then MLB deserves to have Barry Bonds as their all-time leader in home runs. I hope he gets there for no other reason than to make the Idiots Who Run Baseball look even worse.
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Postby PittsburghSportsFan on Sun May 28, 2006 5:31 pm

A-hole just hit 715 to pass The Babe.
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Postby skullman80 on Sun May 28, 2006 7:26 pm

He still isn't half the player Ruth or for that matter Aaron was no matter how many HR's he jacks....
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Postby Fast B on Sun May 28, 2006 8:06 pm

skullman80 wrote:He still isn't half the player Ruth or for that matter Aaron was no matter how many HR's he jacks....


Oh, come on now. Even in his Pittsburgh days Bonds was one of the best players in the game - if not *the* best - and could easily have been one of the all-time greats without any chemical enhancement. To claim otherwise smacks of sour grapes to me.

You might be able to argue that his postseason failures are a knock against him, but the fact is that he was a phenomenal player long before he ever turned into the mutant we see today.

If you don't like Bonds, that's fine - I'm not a huge fan myself. But you can't say with a straight face that the man wasn't talented.
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Postby skullman80 on Sun May 28, 2006 8:12 pm

Fast B wrote:
skullman80 wrote:He still isn't half the player Ruth or for that matter Aaron was no matter how many HR's he jacks....


Oh, come on now. Even in his Pittsburgh days Bonds was one of the best players in the game - if not *the* best - and could easily have been one of the all-time greats without any chemical enhancement. To claim otherwise smacks of sour grapes to me.

You might be able to argue that his postseason failures are a knock against him, but the fact is that he was a phenomenal player long before he ever turned into the mutant we see today.

If you don't like Bonds, that's fine - I'm not a huge fan myself. But you can't say with a straight face that the man wasn't talented.


I never stated he wasn't talented. Even if he was/is juicing you still have to hand eye coordination to hit a baseball, and be smart about it. Obviously he has those two skills in spades.

I just think he isn't as good as either Ruth or Aaron.
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Postby HomerPenguin on Mon May 29, 2006 2:52 am

Draftnik wrote:Ruth and Aaron never faced pitchers on the juice. Gammons, Olney, Stark, etc from ESPN have always said more pitchers were juicing than people realize.


AMEN. If Roger Clemens isn't the poster boy for juicing then I don't know who is. What I love is that he and Schilling, another likely candidate, are among the most vocal pitchers in criticizing batters who juice. Probably hoping to keep the misguided focus just on hitters rather than on everybody.
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon May 29, 2006 11:20 am

I don't care if pitchers were juicing too. It still doesn't make what Bonds did right.

He along with everyone else who used steriods are cheaters. So far, anyone who has been linked to taking steriods has felt backlash. Bonds is receiving the most backlash due to his horrible personality and the biggest reason - He is still an active player chasing one of the most hallowed records in baseball.

It's a real shame that he juiced. He was a hall of famer before it and still is, but his legacy will forever be tarnished now.

There is a lot of blame to go around. The owners, MLB, the players union, etc, but in the end whether using steriods was legal or not the end decision came to the player. And in Barry's case he was already rich, already famous. The only reason he juiced was because of his jealousy towards McGwire.
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