LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:38 pm

GaryRissling wrote:
Spoiler:
Image



:fist:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:40 pm

The best way to deal with the illegal immigration problem is to lessen the restrictiions on becoming a US citizen. My only criteria would be that the person has to be working a full time job/or have a relative that can take care of them without governmental assistance, and that the person take an oath of loyalty. A person would just need to go to a government office such as a town's city hall or post office and fill out tax forms, etc. You could also charge them an immigration fee. Get them paying taxes and focus more on preventing drugs like cocaine and herion from entering our borders.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby the riddler on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:40 pm

I hope that's not a real quote. Embarrassing.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:40 pm

the riddler wrote:I hope that's not a real quote. Embarrassing.


But it is.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:41 pm

the riddler wrote:I hope that's not a real quote. Embarrassing.


It's a real quote and very embarrassing.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:48 pm

I'm still thinking, EPP. That was a good question. I think anyone can ask themselves how they they arrived at the positions they did. Is it upbringing, experiences, personality. Why do some of us end up with different conclusions. You kinda made me dig deep into my soul. It's far more complicated than a yes or no answer. I'll get back to you.
Last edited by Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:50 pm

In other news,

Anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist has his own opinion on why President Barack Obama won the elections: Mitt Romney was portrayed as a “poopy head.”

http://thegrio.com/2012/11/13/grover-norquist-obama-campaign-called-romney-a-poopy-head/
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:51 pm

It is estimated that as much as 40% of business transactions in Los Angeles are conducted via the underground by Illegal Aliens. That leaves 60% of all legitimate businesses having to foot the bill for tax revenue for the city. Yet, 100% of city residents rely on the taxes to keep the city running. Threat of jail is not a deterrent to those that run illegal businesses.

A visit to Macarthur Park with cash in hand gets you all the 'legal' documentation required to work in the USA 'legally'. E-Verify is effective only if the information provided is authentic. It may not be your information, but as long as it's authentic, you'll be given a green light.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:52 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
GaryRissling wrote:
Spoiler:
Image



:fist:

:fist:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:55 pm

BigMcK wrote:It is estimated that as much as 40% of business transactions in Los Angeles are conducted via the underground by Illegal Aliens. That leaves 60% of all legitimate businesses having to foot the bill for tax revenue for the city. Yet, 100% of city residents rely on the taxes to keep the city running. Threat of jail is not a deterrent to those that run illegal businesses.


That implies that they are being threatened with prosecution and jail time, which is clearly not the case.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:56 pm

Sarcastic wrote:I'm still thinking, EPP. That was a good question. I think anyone can ask themselves how they they arrived at the positions they did. Is it upbringing, experiences, personality. Why do some of us end up with different conclusions. You kinda made me dig deep into my soul. It's far more complicated than a yes or no answer. I'll get back to you.

:thumb:

No worries, take your time.

Tickets for the ABB at the Beacon theater for the March run, should go on sale soon. I know you're a fan... :)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:05 pm

columbia wrote:
BigMcK wrote:It is estimated that as much as 40% of business transactions in Los Angeles are conducted via the underground by Illegal Aliens. That leaves 60% of all legitimate businesses having to foot the bill for tax revenue for the city. Yet, 100% of city residents rely on the taxes to keep the city running. Threat of jail is not a deterrent to those that run illegal businesses.


That implies that they are being threatened with prosecution and jail time, which is clearly not the case.


You are correct, they are not threatened. You could slice it that they are not threatened due to concern of public backlash, politics, a shortage of available jail cells and manpower to catch and prosecute, or a total lack of concern on the part of the legal system that they are actually conducting illegal activities.

That's why I say it is not a deterrent.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:10 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:I'm still thinking, EPP. That was a good question. I think anyone can ask themselves how they they arrived at the positions they did. Is it upbringing, experiences, personality. Why do some of us end up with different conclusions. You kinda made me dig deep into my soul. It's far more complicated than a yes or no answer. I'll get back to you.

:thumb:

No worries, take your time.

Tickets for the ABB at the Beacon theater for the March run, should go on sale soon. I know you're a fan... :)


Cool. I'll put that on my calendar.

Just for the record, I was born in Poland. During Communism, which I think has to have some influence on my views today. Parents moved here in the 80's, then got me over (as a kid) a few years later. I am a naturalized citizen. Now, how much does that affect my views vs other 2 factors I'm considering...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:12 pm

That explains your interest in Euro-metal. :)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:13 pm

Speaking of Poland.

Polish officials said Tuesday they had arrested a radical nationalist who planned to detonate a vehicle loaded with 4.4 tons of explosives outside parliament, possibly when the president and prime minister were in the building.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/20/15301615-officials-nationalist-held-over-plot-to-blow-up-polands-parliament
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:14 pm

columbia wrote:That explains your interest in Euro-metal. :)


:thumb:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Wow. That guy in Poland's a real nut. Read the article above.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:29 pm

GaryRissling wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


Edit: To be fair, some of them are our citizens.

And to absolutely clear, we are not raining missiles down from outside their borders; we are routinely violating the territorial sovereignty of nations to deploy the killer flying robots. The weapons they carry simply don't have the range to launch attacks from outside the three-mile limit.

Just wanted that on the record.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:32 pm

This country is dying

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title


CNET has learned that Patrick Leahy, the influential Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has dramatically reshaped his legislation in response to law enforcement concerns. A vote on his bill, which now authorizes warrantless access to Americans' e-mail, is scheduled for next week.

Revised bill highlights:

✭ Grants warrantless access to Americans' electronic correspondence to over 22 federal agencies. Only a subpoena is required, not a search warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause.
✭ Permits state and local law enforcement to warrantlessly access Americans' correspondence stored on systems not offered "to the public," including university networks.
✭ Authorizes any law enforcement agency to access accounts without a warrant -- or subsequent court review -- if they claim "emergency" situations exist.
✭ Says providers "shall notify" law enforcement in advance of any plans to tell their customers that they've been the target of a warrant, order, or subpoena.
✭ Delays notification of customers whose accounts have been accessed from 3 days to "10 business days." This notification can be postponed by up to 360 days.

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge. (CNET obtained the revised draft from a source involved in the negotiations with Leahy.)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:40 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:I've seen the studies Tif cites, and they don't factor in the cost of social programs for those American citizens that are displaced.

Besides which the studies I've seen are all funded by liberal "Think tanks".

You need to get out more, because that's the majority opinion of economists in the U.S. today. The economist known for the specific 1% number I keep citing is George Borjas, a Cuban-born Professor of Economics at Harvard, and is regarded by Business Week and The Wall Street Journal as "America’s leading immigration economist". He is also an advocate of reducing the rate of immigration to the U.S.

And to the first point, that number is almost impossible to calculate because of the fact that 1 illegal immigrant job simply does not equate to 1 citizen collecting a welfare check. It also does not mean that every illegal job represents a job not being held by a citizen. I don't know about you, but despite living less than 30 miles from some incredibly fertile farm land I don't know a single person who has ever considered picking strawberries when times were tough, including myself. That may say more about my friends and me than it does about immigration policy, but that's the real world I know.

ExPatriatePen wrote:I changed my landscaper a few years back because he was using ILLEGALS. My new landscaper (read: grass cutter), uses only locals (To be fair, most are relatives or former HS friends and drinking buddies). He costs a couple of bucks more a week, but it's worth it.

Can't say for certain, but I don't think I've ever had a legal landscaper or housekeeper in the 8 years I've used those services.

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:My only criteria would be that the person has to be working a full time job/or have a relative that can take care of them without governmental assistance, and that the person take an oath of loyalty.

I don't mean this to be insulting, but I think the idea of an oath for immigrants is little more than window dressing.

Besides, it isn't all that hard to legally immigrate as it is. There's just a lot of red tape, and the process takes a really long time to play out (as in years).

BigMcK wrote:
columbia wrote:
BigMcK wrote:It is estimated that as much as 40% of business transactions in Los Angeles are conducted via the underground by Illegal Aliens. That leaves 60% of all legitimate businesses having to foot the bill for tax revenue for the city. Yet, 100% of city residents rely on the taxes to keep the city running. Threat of jail is not a deterrent to those that run illegal businesses.


That implies that they are being threatened with prosecution and jail time, which is clearly not the case.


You are correct, they are not threatened. You could slice it that they are not threatened due to concern of public backlash, politics, a shortage of available jail cells and manpower to catch and prosecute, or a total lack of concern on the part of the legal system that they are actually conducting illegal activities.

That's why I say it is not a deterrent.

And I assert that there is no really effective deterrent for participation in the underground economy. The players on both sides of argument know and understand the potential impact of any real effort at policing the illegal workforce, and know that impact would be absolutely devastating to the economy.

That is also why I assert here and now that 'immigration reform' will not put an end to that underground economy. Illegal immigrants will still be picking fruit in Ventura Co, will still be framing houses in Temecula, will still be cleaning hotel rooms in Santa Monica..... the economic incentive is simply too great.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:42 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:This country is dying

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
Spoiler:
CNET has learned that Patrick Leahy, the influential Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has dramatically reshaped his legislation in response to law enforcement concerns. A vote on his bill, which now authorizes warrantless access to Americans' e-mail, is scheduled for next week.

Revised bill highlights:

✭ Grants warrantless access to Americans' electronic correspondence to over 22 federal agencies. Only a subpoena is required, not a search warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause.
✭ Permits state and local law enforcement to warrantlessly access Americans' correspondence stored on systems not offered "to the public," including university networks.
✭ Authorizes any law enforcement agency to access accounts without a warrant -- or subsequent court review -- if they claim "emergency" situations exist.
✭ Says providers "shall notify" law enforcement in advance of any plans to tell their customers that they've been the target of a warrant, order, or subpoena.
✭ Delays notification of customers whose accounts have been accessed from 3 days to "10 business days." This notification can be postponed by up to 360 days.

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge. (CNET obtained the revised draft from a source involved in the negotiations with Leahy.)

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin -- "Assassin's Creed III"
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:This country is dying

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title


CNET has learned that Patrick Leahy, the influential Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has dramatically reshaped his legislation in response to law enforcement concerns. A vote on his bill, which now authorizes warrantless access to Americans' e-mail, is scheduled for next week.

Revised bill highlights:

✭ Grants warrantless access to Americans' electronic correspondence to over 22 federal agencies. Only a subpoena is required, not a search warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause.
✭ Permits state and local law enforcement to warrantlessly access Americans' correspondence stored on systems not offered "to the public," including university networks.
✭ Authorizes any law enforcement agency to access accounts without a warrant -- or subsequent court review -- if they claim "emergency" situations exist.
✭ Says providers "shall notify" law enforcement in advance of any plans to tell their customers that they've been the target of a warrant, order, or subpoena.
✭ Delays notification of customers whose accounts have been accessed from 3 days to "10 business days." This notification can be postponed by up to 360 days.

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge. (CNET obtained the revised draft from a source involved in the negotiations with Leahy.)


I've also read that that it was the Obama admin (Holder) who actually rewrote the bill. Not that it matters in the end, but I really can't think of anything Holder has done that hasn't brazenly pitted the interests of government power over the will of the people - so it wouldn't surprise me.

Edited for crappy grammar
Last edited by GaryRissling on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:55 pm

Somebody has to file a lawsuit and try to stop that. It's crazy.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:04 pm

You guys know anything about this? I was reading BBC now and I think I remember something, but it's kinda fuzzy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20373438

Alan Gross sues US over detention in Cuba

An American contractor serving a 15-year jail term in Cuba is suing his former employer and the US government.

Alan Gross and his wife Judy say he was not adequately trained or told about the risks he was incurring when he went to Cuba to do development work.

Mr Gross was jailed by Cuba in 2011 for "crimes against the state", after he took internet equipment to the island.

He had been working for a company under contract with the US Agency for International Development.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:10 pm

just was watching a webinar re: ACA. apparently the stipulation for full time/part time employees and counting towards your number for offering care is they have to be part time for only 1 quarter. you can work full time for 3 quarters then your employer can bump you to less than 30 hours a week for 1 quarter and no have to offer insurance.
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