LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:02 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Exactly Gaucho, teach them both and let THEM decide which one holds up to scrutiny.


I'm fine with educating kids about religion. Teaching them religious beliefs, not so much. Waste of time, money, and resources.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:04 pm

Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Exactly Gaucho, teach them both and let THEM decide which one holds up to scrutiny.


I'm fine with educating kids about religion. Teaching them religious beliefs, not so much. Waste of time, money, and resources.

When so many of today's political problems are based on religious beliefs, I'm not so sure that the study of religions *is* a waste of time.

(and this coming from EPP the complete agnostic)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:05 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Exactly Gaucho, teach them both and let THEM decide which one holds up to scrutiny.


I'm fine with educating kids about religion. Teaching them religious beliefs, not so much. Waste of time, money, and resources.

When so many of today's political problems are based on religious beliefs, I'm not so sure that the study of religions *is* a waste of time.

(and this coming from EPP the complete agnostic)


But where are you going to get an unbiased source to teach?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:09 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Exactly Gaucho, teach them both and let THEM decide which one holds up to scrutiny.


I'm fine with educating kids about religion. Teaching them religious beliefs, not so much. Waste of time, money, and resources.

When so many of today's political problems are based on religious beliefs, I'm not so sure that the study of religions *is* a waste of time.

(and this coming from EPP the complete agnostic)


But where are you going to get an unbiased source to teach?

I don't know about today, but I had some pretty damn good public school teachers, even at the high school level, back in the 70's who did a great job of hiding their own beliefs when presenting different religious beliefs.

I think most of us in this thread could do a fairly good job with a little preparation.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:13 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Exactly Gaucho, teach them both and let THEM decide which one holds up to scrutiny.


I'm fine with educating kids about religion. Teaching them religious beliefs, not so much. Waste of time, money, and resources.

When so many of today's political problems are based on religious beliefs, I'm not so sure that the study of religions *is* a waste of time.

(and this coming from EPP the complete agnostic)


Please read my post. I said I'm fine with educating kids about religion. That obviously includes religious beliefs. Teaching them is an entirely different matter. This has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Tomas on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:25 pm

I posted this in the "Jiri Slegr" thread in NPR (because his number is also there), but this actually is more of a "political attack" story:

One of the avant-garde art groups just posted their newest art piece called "Moral Reform", currently on display in Prague DOX art gallery. It contains personal cell phone numbers of all House Representatives and the number of the Czech President. Next to the picture, they installed a telephone (check the lower left corner of the picture) that the visitors of the art exhibition can use to send an anonymous text message to anybody from that list. According to the authors "we gave people the most direct method of democracy." And the visitors apparently do text! The first text message went to the ex-Mayor of Prague and said "{You} thief!".

https://twitter.com/janekrubes/status/2 ... 52/photo/1

(For the Penguins fans, the NW region of the picture may be the most interesting :wink: )

More about the authors' intentions:

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... anicni_brd
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:30 pm

like
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:14 pm

A course on world religions should be required for high schoolers. A basic outline of the religion and its tenets.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:20 pm

I disagree MWB. It would be virtually impossible for an educator to teach anything religious without bias ever creeping in. Same for the students; by the time they are 15+ they have come to a solid understanding of their religious beliefs. These biases get in the way of educating and all that occurs is zoning out or considering the class a fluff class. If you are going to teach about religion, you must incorporate the cultures that surround them. The basic tenets of nearly all religions are nearly the same, but the cultures can have vast differences.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:27 pm

But then it would also be too delicate to teach history.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:28 pm

I'm just imagining PBP as a HS history teacher....
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:29 pm

Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Exactly Gaucho, teach them both and let THEM decide which one holds up to scrutiny.


I'm fine with educating kids about religion. Teaching them religious beliefs, not so much. Waste of time, money, and resources.

When so many of today's political problems are based on religious beliefs, I'm not so sure that the study of religions *is* a waste of time.

(and this coming from EPP the complete agnostic)


Please read my post. I said I'm fine with educating kids about religion. That obviously includes religious beliefs. Teaching them is an entirely different matter. This has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.


Maybe I have a different - read: wrong - understanding of the word "teach". Sorry if that's the case.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:30 pm

columbia wrote:I'm just imagining PBP as a HS history teacher....


I'm trying not to.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:31 pm

I don't believe bias would be a problem:
Christianity is the belief in x.
Islam is the belief in y.
Hinduism is the belief in z.
And so on. How would giving factual information about different religions lead to bias? Familiarity? Most educators can separate personal belief from what they teach.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:33 pm

Comparative religion classes are pretty standard in college, so there's no reason they couldn't be in high schools.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:37 pm

columbia wrote:Comparative religion classes are pretty standard in college, so there's no reason they couldn't be in high schools.


Comparative religion classes in college are taught by professors who have spent their entire careers studying and teaching religion.

The average high school teacher is nowhere near as specialized/unbiased.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:39 pm

So your concern is that it would turn into proselytizing?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:55 pm

I think everyone is doing a fine job illustrating a key problem with government run schools in general. Science has, in many ways been abused and politicized by both parties. Were schools more privately funded and students not restricted to attend schools based on geography/demographics; parents would be free to choose a school for their child that they find the most acceptable to them as there would be schools teaching a variety of curriculums. Over time schools would earn reputations for preparing kids for the future or not.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:02 pm

I don't think there would be a great variety of schools. Privately run schools need money; money isn't going to come from specialization because you won't get the numbers needed to be profitable. My guess is you'd end up with schools that are very similar to what is available now.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:03 pm

Public schools ftw
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:04 pm

columbia wrote:So your concern is that it would turn into proselytizing?


I think some (not all) teachers would either focus more on what they wanted to focus on or let some biases get in the way. Either way, I feel some would unfairly represent ideologies they didn't agree with.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm

columbia wrote:Comparative religion classes are pretty standard in college, so there's no reason they couldn't be in high schools.


Maturity alone is a huge difference.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:15 pm

Rylan wrote:
columbia wrote:Comparative religion classes are pretty standard in college, so there's no reason they couldn't be in high schools.


Maturity alone is a huge difference.


Expect maturity, get maturity. We shouldn't limit what we teach kids because we underestimate them.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:25 pm

Perhaps. I am just saying a mandatory class will not yield results. The good kids will learn and the bad kids won't. Whether or not its mandatory will not break down the walls of bigotry and prejudice for some people.

I took a World Cultures class in 10th grade and we spent a month (total) on the various major religions (Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity). A week per religion is all you need to gather the basic information about each.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Tico Rick on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:33 pm

Most schools today offer some type of World Cultures class which covers the world's major religions (among other things). The next time I meet a World Cultures teacher who is interested in using the course as a means of promoting his/her own religious beliefs will be the first time.
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