LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:27 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:If it were legal, they'd still be fighting over it (IMO, not sure what the difference would be)


Who would be fighting over it? CVS vs Walgreens?


Who would supply it? I admittedly know nothing about the illegal drug trade, but these cartels have to get it from somewhere. Plus, how is legalizing it in the US going to get rid of the gangs across the border?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Trip McNeely on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:28 pm

A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Trip McNeely on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:29 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:If it were legal, they'd still be fighting over it (IMO, not sure what the difference would be)


Who would be fighting over it? CVS vs Walgreens?


Who would supply it? I admittedly know nothing about the illegal drug trade, but these cartels have to get it from somewhere. Plus, how is legalizing it in the US going to get rid of the gangs across the border?


They won't have anything to fight over because of the supply of legal drugs. Again, people don't start gang wars over alcohol. Its the same thing. There will be companies who produce pot just like Smirinoff produces vodka
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:30 pm

Trip McNeely wrote:A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore


Right, but that was something here that we could control. The drug cartels in Mexico aren't governed by us.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:31 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:If it were legal, they'd still be fighting over it (IMO, not sure what the difference would be)


Who would be fighting over it? CVS vs Walgreens?


Who would supply it? I admittedly know nothing about the illegal drug trade, but these cartels have to get it from somewhere. Plus, how is legalizing it in the US going to get rid of the gangs across the border?


They would have no means of income anymore. Well, at this point they're probably powerful enough to find other means (prostitution, which shouldnt be illegal either).
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Trip McNeely on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:31 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore


Right, but that was something here that we could control. The drug cartels in Mexico aren't governed by us.


Yea but by legalizing it, cartels would basically disintegrate because there would be no money in the illegal drug business. They aren't going to keep fighting just because they don't like each other
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:32 pm

Trip McNeely wrote:They aren't going to keep fighting just because they don't like each other


Well...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:33 pm

Trip McNeely wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore


Right, but that was something here that we could control. The drug cartels in Mexico aren't governed by us.


Yea but by legalizing it, cartels would basically disintegrate because there would be no money in the illegal drug business. They aren't going to keep fighting just because they don't like each other


So there's basically no market in Mexico/south?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:34 pm

Are you just being a contrarian?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:34 pm

Troy Loney wrote:Are you just being a contrarian?


No, I'm trying to learn more.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Trip McNeely on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:34 pm

Gaucho wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:They aren't going to keep fighting just because they don't like each other


Well...


Haha yea true. But you get my point. Organized crime is based on the idea of making money. Most of the conflicts are over turf, supply, etc, which all lead to the basic principle of money. If you aren't making money, what the point of employing all these people in your cartel
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Trip McNeely on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:36 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore


Right, but that was something here that we could control. The drug cartels in Mexico aren't governed by us.


Yea but by legalizing it, cartels would basically disintegrate because there would be no money in the illegal drug business. They aren't going to keep fighting just because they don't like each other


So there's basically no market in Mexico/south?


Not really. At least 3/4 of the business if from the US.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby bh on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:41 pm

Gaucho wrote:I still say you have to legalize all drugs. Better to let people make bad choices than having to put up with the cartels.

:thumb: Innocents will still suffer. People will drive when they shouldn't and hurt people, etc. But at least you could raise awareness about that type of stuff. You make it a medical problem (addiction) and let people get help for it. Take all the money we waste on prisons for drug related crimes and put it to good use. The cartels are not going to stop... EVER. With the kind of money available selling drugs, someone new will always be there to gladly slide into the role.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby bh on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:44 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore


Right, but that was something here that we could control. The drug cartels in Mexico aren't governed by us.

Companies could grow it in the good old USA too. Why let people in other counties have all that income.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:58 pm

bh wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Trip McNeely wrote:A basic example is prohibition. You don't see gangsters fighting over alcohol anymore


Right, but that was something here that we could control. The drug cartels in Mexico aren't governed by us.

Companies could grow it in the good old USA too. Why let people in other counties have all that income.


Well...they'll still probably grow it overseas.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:55 pm

Trying to follow along here. Sorry if I missed something.

Legalize ALL drugs.

Destroy ALL anti-NARCO efforts by foreign governments, because once Cocaine and Opiates are legal, we don't need some stinking other third-world country trying to enforce their own laws for the demand of said drug in the Good Ole' US of A. We want it; you better supply it, regardless of the harm it may cause to your nation. Cocaine doesn't really grow well here, nor do opiates. Maybe import the raw material and allow Main Street to construct the final product? Do we raid them if they don't supply us with our drip?

Create the demand for heavily addictive narcotics through legalization.

Allow these drugs to be purchased at legal store fronts. Will this be with or without a prescription? Is there a legal age to consider? Will there be any oversight as to quantity and quality of product sold? Who pays for the overdose victim's funeral and will family members left behind be able to sue the legal storefront if the quantity or quality were too strong?

Since they are now legal, do we release those incarcerated on drug charges back into society? What if they committed a major felony while trying to obtain money to purchase the once illegal drug? Should they be allowed to be free?

The person that is now purchasing the legal drug becomes addicted and is now longer employable due to the effects of the drug. Do we offer them unemployment because of their addiction or disability? Do we incarcerate said person for their addiction once they resort to criminal activities to obtain money to purchase their drugs? Are insurance companies mandated to provide funds for prescriptions for harmful drugs?

Oh, once the addiction is so sever that medical treatment is required, is there funding available for treatment of the damage done to the human body only, or does funding also include rehabilitation? Does funding include cosmetic repair, because we have all seen what happens to nice looking people once they start using addictive drugs like Meth to make them look like scarecrows. How about nasal cavity reconstruction from the snorting of Cocaine; is that to be funded?

Do we just hang up a new banner at each border that states, 'United States of America: Pusher Man'?

Sorry for being flippant and extreme. Know too many (former, current, dead) addicts to not drop in on this. Please carry on.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:59 pm

BOOM
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:02 pm

BigMcK wrote:Sorry for being flippant and extreme. Know too many (former, current, dead) addicts to not drop in on this. Please carry on.


Pretty much everything you said could also be applied to alcohol. Yet no one is suggesting we criminalize that (again).

IMO, people that want to do drugs will find their drugs regardless of whether they're legal or illegal.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:04 pm

Illegal drugs are just as addictive as legal drugs and people will make bad choices regardless. I happen to believe that legalizing drugs does not lead to more users.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:26 pm

Gaucho wrote:Illegal drugs are just as addictive as legal drugs and people will make bad choices regardless. I happen to believe that legalizing drugs does not lead to more users.


Disagree 100%. Supply creates demand. Demand is to make a car that is safer to drive. Supply meets that demand.

Demand says to create a way to transfer instant communication across the globe. Supply meets that demand.

Demand says offer me something that will alter my current state of mind. Supply meets demand.

Demand says offer that to me but make it stronger; I can self regulate. Supply provides the demon, er demand.

Not debating the addictive nature of illegal or legal drugs. Being addicted to expensive wine or Thunderbird is the same addiction. Same with those addicted to Codeine or nose spray. Offering my thoughts of why in the world would a nation with our population allow known destructive drugs be readily available to the general public.

Either way, I am not expecting to see bindles of crack next to the Dentyne at my local supermarket anytime soon.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:28 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:
BigMcK wrote:Sorry for being flippant and extreme. Know too many (former, current, dead) addicts to not drop in on this. Please carry on.


Pretty much everything you said could also be applied to alcohol. Yet no one is suggesting we criminalize that (again).

IMO, people that want to do drugs will find their drugs regardless of whether they're legal or illegal.


Agree. If you want it, you'll find a way to get it. It all depends on how much are you willing to pay for it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Ossa on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:33 pm

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:41 pm

BigMcK wrote:why in the world would a nation allow known destructive drugs be readily available to the general public.


A destructive drug like alcohol you mean?

BigMcK wrote:Either way, I am not expecting to see bindles of crack next to the Dentyne at my local supermarket anytime soon.


I don't think anyone suggests selling it like candy. I also don't think anyone suggests that everyone should start experimenting with reckless abandon. I never did myself. The whole point is to be able to better control it, not create demand or anything.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Ossa on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:44 pm

BigMcK wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:
BigMcK wrote:Sorry for being flippant and extreme. Know too many (former, current, dead) addicts to not drop in on this. Please carry on.


Pretty much everything you said could also be applied to alcohol. Yet no one is suggesting we criminalize that (again).

IMO, people that want to do drugs will find their drugs regardless of whether they're legal or illegal.


Agree. If you want it, you'll find a way to get it. It all depends on how much are you willing to pay for it.


If you are addicted to drugs, you'll do anything to get your fix. If your entire life revolves around getting high, you'll steal from your family and even kill others, in order to get that high. Trying to decrease supply, which only increases prices for users/increasing profits for dealers, won't benefit anyone. It just makes it even worse.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:50 pm

Only way to cut out drug gangs and all the violence that go with them is to legitimize. Or am I missing something? Kinda doing 5 things at once here, so I can't give it my complete thought. Interesting arguments on both sides, though.
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