LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:44 pm

Rylan wrote:Leave Israel and Palestine to figure out their own issues. Other nations trying to force a nation into giving up land to form another independent state is major over-stepping IMO.


Palestine will finally get recognized this Thursday. I don't understand why Israel (and it's lap puppy, the US) are so against it, as it merely means that it will be taken a bit more seriously. OK, I get it. Israel is scared Pal. will be able to take Israeli leaders to Hague and sue their pants off (and Israel will just ignore it all like it has the 130+ UN resolutions against it), but my point is that instead of making nice with the Palestinians, Israel instead goes on a vicious attack and threatens that this means they'll never get their land now. It's crazy stuff. Isreal is doing the opposite of what I'd be doing. I'm just saying.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:48 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Wait, now you're saying that Rice was at the White House watching the drone feed? Maybe with some fresh popcorn, and a cider.


:face:
:pop:
:D

You're not insinuating that popcorn and cider in a theater seat is the only way Rice could have gotten that information are you?
Why does the image of an ostrich come to mind when the Obama apologists discuss what Rice knew?

There's been absolutely no reason brought forth as to why Al-Queda involvement would have been classified. But there's a very clear reason why it wouldn't have been shared by an administration that was in the middle of an election campaign and had been trumpeting the "Al-Queda on the run" message.

Personally, I could care less about US military strength in the war on Terror as you put it. But I deeply care when elected and appointed officials take a cavalier attitude when it comes to telling the truth to the American public.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:14 pm

This probably belongs here.

Judge orders tobacco firms to say they lied about smoking dangers
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/27/15490985-judge-orders-tobacco-firms-to-say-they-lied-about-smoking-dangers

WASHINGTON -- A federal judge on Tuesday ordered tobacco companies to publish corrective statements that say they lied about the dangers of smoking and that disclose smoking's health effects, including the death on average of 1,200 people a day.

Each corrective ad is to be prefaced by a statement that a federal court has concluded that the defendant tobacco companies "deliberately deceived the American public about the health effects of smoking."

Among the required statements are that smoking kills more people than murder, AIDS, suicide, drugs, car crashes and alcohol combined, and that "secondhand smoke kills over 3,000 Americans a year."
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:49 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:You're not insinuating that popcorn and cider in a theater seat is the only way Rice could have gotten that information are you?

No, but you sorta did.
ExPatriatePen wrote:If you'd rather believe that the administration was more than willing to admit they were wrong about the "AlQaeda on the run" comments and just didn't know that there had been prior attacks, numerous requests for adiitional security from the embassy, and drones in the air watching the entire event go ahead. I just think if they're that incompetant, they don't deserve my unquestioning support.

That was in response to my question "What evidence is there that she KNEW something different than what she said?" And instead of answering that specific question, it immediately became 'the administration', and 'they' (plural).

There has - still - not been one piece of evidence offered that Ambassador Rice was actually told any of the information she is being skewered for not sharing. And that's wrong.

ExPatriatePen wrote:Why does the image of an ostrich come to mind when the Obama apologists discuss what Rice knew?

It's the only way we can drown out this nonsense.

ExPatriatePen wrote:There's been absolutely no reason brought forth as to why Al-Queda involvement would have been classified.

Then your gripe is with the CIA; they are the ones that edited the briefing that was delivered to Ambassador Rice.

If there was only one source of that information, particularly if it was a human intelligence asset, revealing that we knew there was al-Qaeda involvement so early after the attack would potentially put that asset at direct risk of being compromised.... which could mean everything from simply losing access to additional intelligence from that source, to that asset losing access to the ability to breathe.

Ultimately, I have no problem believing the intel briefing points given to Ambassador Rice were altered by someone at CIA at the direction of someone at the White House. (Which may or may not be problematic) But going after the Ambassador for that act is like throwing stones at the weatherman's car if it rains on your picnic. Not only that, it's focusing effort on the recipient of the results and proceeds of the institutional cock-up that resulted in three or four different versions of the edit history of those talking points and really sorta ignores the institutional cock-up..... and, really, that's the bit that needs fixing.

ExPatriatePen wrote:Personally, I could care less about US military strength in the war on Terror as you put it. But I deeply care when elected and appointed officials take a cavalier attitude when it comes to telling the truth to the American public.

Again..... what evidence is there that concealing this information was cavalier or politically motivated?? And what evidence is there that Ambassador Rice played an affirmative and active role in the concealment of that information? Where is it? It's a very simple question, and it has yet to be answered.

You and the House Republican looney brigade seem content to levy charges of malfeasance and then set about looking for evidence to back up the claim. Usually, in polite society, those activities happen in the reverse order.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:53 pm

Now you did it. Tif is mad for probably the first time ever.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:57 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Rylan wrote:Leave Israel and Palestine to figure out their own issues. Other nations trying to force a nation into giving up land to form another independent state is major over-stepping IMO.

Palestine will finally get recognized this Thursday. I don't understand why Israel (and it's lap puppy, the US) are so against it, as it merely means that it will be taken a bit more seriously. OK, I get it. Israel is scared Pal. will be able to take Israeli leaders to Hague and sue their pants off (and Israel will just ignore it all like it has the 130+ UN resolutions against it), but my point is that instead of making nice with the Palestinians, Israel instead goes on a vicious attack and threatens that this means they'll never get their land now. It's crazy stuff. Isreal is doing the opposite of what I'd be doing. I'm just saying.

I share your confusion. Any remedies or benefits statehood would grant to the Palestinians would run the same way for the Israelis. For example, if the West Bank and Gaza were an independent state, then any rockets flying across the border into Israel would not be acts of “resistance” or “opposing the occupation” or anything like that, they would be casus belli justifying international sanctions or even an Israeli declaration of war. Even the U.N. charter permits member states to defend themselves against aggression from other states. The rockets and terrorism would have to stop, or the Palestinian state would swiftly find itself on the losing end of a perfectly just and legitimate full-blown war.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:06 pm

Gaucho wrote:Now you did it. Tif is mad for probably the first time ever.

I was pretty mad when Adam Graves slashed Lemieux's hand in '92, too.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:20 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Now you did it. Tif is mad for probably the first time ever.

I was pretty mad when Adam Graves slashed Lemieux's hand in '92, too.


Ok, first time you got mad and it wasn't hockey or food related.

Or Queen related. :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Tomas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:48 pm

The coalition of the UNwilling:

US, Israel, Panama, Palau, Canada, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Czech Republic, Micronesia

:?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:51 pm

Well, half of these countries will be gone soon anyway.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Again..... what evidence is there that concealing this information was cavalier or politically motivated?? And what evidence is there that Ambassador Rice played an affirmative and active role in the concealment of that information? Where is it? It's a very simple question, and it has yet to be answered.

You and the House Republican looney brigade seem content to levy charges of malfeasance and then set about looking for evidence to back up the claim. Usually, in polite society, those activities happen in the reverse order.

In a polite society, one wouldn't be lied to by their elected and apointed representatives.

Tifosi, There's no snow on the ground outside my house right now, but if I wake up tomorrow and there's snow on the ground, I won't be able to prove that it snowed through video evidence, but the existance of snow on the ground is a pretty clear indicator that it did, in fact, snow.

Rice admits that she was privy to both classified and unclassified data regarding the events in Benghazi.
We know from data leaked out of the intellegence community that they had survialence through the use of drones, during the event.

It's not a stretch to believe that the video survailence from the drones (which would have shown the RPG's and other heavy assualt weapons) would have been part of that material.

Rice went in front of the TV camera's and, by her own admission, said she was only talking from the unclasified documents.
She should have stepped aside and said "I can't, in good conscience, go in front of the american people and deliver a message that Is obviously in conflict with the classified information that I'm not allowed to divulge.

The fact that she was a willing shill, makes her unqualified for a post where reputation and integrity are of utmost importance.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Gaucho wrote:Well, half of these countries will be gone soon anyway.


What do you know that you're not sharing??? :shock:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:18 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Well, half of these countries will be gone soon anyway.


What do you know that you're not sharing??? :shock:


Well, I wasn't referring to the USA, Canada, Israel (knock on wood), and the Czech Republic.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:25 pm

Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Well, half of these countries will be gone soon anyway.


What do you know that you're not sharing??? :shock:


Well, I wasn't referring to the USA, Canada, Israel (knock on wood), and the Czech Republic.

Well, the Marshall Islands are a US territory are they not? I don;t see that changing.

Panama? I sure hope not. Panamaian independence is critical with the canal and all...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:26 pm

I think he's implying global warming
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:28 pm

Nooo, I was referring to all those small Pacific islands that are about to be submerged. :wink:

Edit: sorry, didn't see MRandall's post. And I forgot Panama.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:32 pm

MRandall25 wrote:I think he's implying global warming



Gaucho wrote:Nooo, I was referring to all those small Pacific islands that are about to be submerged. :wink:

Edit: sorry, didn't see MRandall's post. And I forgot Panama.


oooffffffffffff :oops:

sorry, don;t know what I was thinking
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:42 pm

tifosi77 wrote:malfeasance


Stooop using words I don't know.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:43 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:survialence


I know for a fact this word does not exist.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:47 pm

Tomas wrote:The coalition of the UNwilling:

US, Israel, Panama, Palau, Canada, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Czech Republic, Micronesia

:?


What's up with your Czech Republic, bro?

I didn't know what the hell Nauru was so I looked it up.

Nauru (English i/nɑːˈuːruː/ nah-OO-roo), officially the Republic of Nauru and formerly known as Pleasant Island, is an island country in Micronesia in the South Pacific.

It kinda sounds like Nauru and Micronesia is one country? Anyway. How stupid do US, Israel, and Canada look now. Oh, and Czech Republic. Sorry, Tomas.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:56 pm

Nauru is an independent country in Micronesia, but not a part of the Federated States of Micronesia. Paulau is, though.

Yes, I'm a geography geek.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:57 pm

Gaucho wrote:Nauru is an independent country in Micronesia, but not a part of the Federated States of Micronesia. Paulau is, though.


Ohhh. Thanks.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:58 pm

Micronesia is the name for the group of islands, which are split into:

-Nauru
-Palau
-Federal States of Micronesia
-Kiribati
-Marshall Islands
-Guam
-Mariana Islands
-Wake Island

Edit: Damnit Gaucho :wink:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:58 pm

Palau. Duh.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:59 pm

lol
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