LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:11 pm

I can't help but laugh at the utter naïveté (and that is a kind word) to think that strict gun laws will drastically lower violence or specifically gun crimes.

"Shucks...I'm fully homicidal, ready to take my own life and the lives of others without pause, and I've planned this entire attack. But I'm not allowed to purchase a handgun, so I guess I'll go play some racquetball instead." Lolol

I am 100% for common sense gun laws re: felons, mentally unstable, etc. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE GUNS. Period. End of story. The people that are mad enough to commit horrific atrocities like this aren't going to be swayed by draconian legislation. It is borderline naïveté/stupidity to think that.

IMO, the most relevant issue at hand is letting mentally deranged people slip through the cracks until they seriously harm someone. Have you noticed mental issues have been a universal theme in every single one of these attacks?

Common sense gun laws? Sure. Banning the sale of handguns universally? Yeah...right.

And for the record, I understand this killer didn't even use automatics
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:14 pm

I guess a reasonable question would be if guns should be harder to obtain. But somebody mentioned, I believe, that the laws in CT are relatively strict.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pittsports87 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:16 pm

While changing gun laws might not make a huge difference right now, it would make a difference in the long run. Not saying get rid of guns all together but it is too easy to get them now, the gun laws need to be strengthened on how you can get them. Need more testing for people and longer waiting periods. Can't you go to a gun bash and get a gun really easily as long you are a certain age? Not sure about the exact rule for them, but I know they are legal and it is an easy way to get a gun.

I know some states (I think Michigan is one?) that have a sale every year where they buy guns from people no questions asked. I think this is something that every state should adopt.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pittsports87 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:19 pm

And I hate when people bring up the 2nd amendment and the constitution when defending gun laws. The document was written over 200 years ago, it also said that African American's only count as 3/5th of a person. Times change and these old documents need to change and adapt to society as it is today.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:23 pm

I almost wish the government would just completely ban private firearms a la Cuba. Then the next time the inevitable mass shooting takes place, We won't have to listen to weeks of gun control debates afterwards.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ulf on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:24 pm

Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun in the area Tuesday before the shooting, a law enforcement source said, according to CNN's Susan Candiotti.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shmenguin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:24 pm

If someone thinks that making gun laws stricter won't prevent some degree of gun violence, "naive" is a very polite way to describe that person.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:27 pm

shmenguin wrote:If someone thinks that making gun laws stricter won't prevent some degree of gun violence, "naive" is a very polite way to describe that person.


That's true. The PATRIOT Act has kept us safe from the specter of terrorism, so I guess I could be considered naive.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:27 pm

ulf wrote:Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun in the area Tuesday before the shooting, a law enforcement source said, according to CNN's Susan Candiotti.


Was he able to?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ulf on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:28 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
ulf wrote:Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun in the area Tuesday before the shooting, a law enforcement source said, according to CNN's Susan Candiotti.


Was he able to?

That's all they wrote. From the way it's worded, sounds like he wasn't.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:28 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
ulf wrote:Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun in the area Tuesday before the shooting, a law enforcement source said, according to CNN's Susan Candiotti.


Was he able to?


I think CT's laws say you have to be 21, so no. He was 20.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shmenguin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:30 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:If someone thinks that making gun laws stricter won't prevent some degree of gun violence, "naive" is a very polite way to describe that person.


That's true. The PATRIOT Act has kept us safe from the specter of terrorism, so I guess I could be considered naive.


You're treating this in an extremely binary fashion. I don't know how you can feel confident with that approach.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:34 pm

I've stated plain as day I am 100% in favor of background checks, reasonable waiting periods, restrictions on gun ownership to certain people, etc. I am about as far from a hard liner on this issue as it gets.

I'm just genuinely curious...everyone is screaming "WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL". I want specifics, not generalities.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:36 pm

I don't own guns and will not. I do not hunt and was not brought up in a home or an area that cared much about hunting or firearms in general, but it seems like the only option is "ban guns" and any other view is "binary" or "naive".
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:37 pm

Switzerland is widely regarded as one of the safest nations in the world and everyone has a gun. In a country of 300 million people, there are roughly 70,000 fatalities caused by firearms. So any given person has a 0.023333333% chance of being killed in a gun related offense. Usually half of these are suicides. So cut that number in half.

That is what happens when you have that many people within a nation. No matter what you do, people will kill other people.

If this constitution is so old then everything about it must be rewritten. No more trials by peers since most of society resents jury duty. No more freedom of speech since it can be inciteful and cause panic and disorder. Especially over the internet. Same with the press and religion.

How about we allow quartering of troops because they are needed to keep the peace in areas. That would help out.

Or we should get rid of the idea that any search and seizure should be allowed no matter what since who knows how many crimes it could prevent.

Or maybe double jeopardy shouldn't exist when new evidence arrives allowing for us to get the bad guy.

Maybe excessive punishment or bail would help prevent crime some more how about we change that?

You can not pick and choose your arguments about the constitution and expect any true results. If the constitution is too old for 1 amendment, then it is too old for ALL amendments.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:39 pm

I don't personally own guns either, but came from central PA and a family of hunters. I just want specific policies that posters like Tico Rick would be in favor of.

I think that's why I get so irritated. It's so easy to scream about gun control after something like this happens, but no one seems to want to provide any details.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ulf on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:42 pm

Alejandro Rojas wrote:I don't own guns and will not. I do not hunt and was not brought up in a home or an area that cared much about hunting or firearms in general, but it seems like the only option is "ban guns" and any other view is "binary" or "naive".

Pretty much. Yesterday I was heartless and selfish for arguing otherwise lol. Not on here, btw.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shmenguin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:46 pm

switzerland, where the majority of men in their 20's go through organized militia training. it's not so weird that they're more responsible with firearms, is it?

comparing other cultures in this regard is a waste of time.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:47 pm

No, it isn't. It shows that our culture IS the problem. Not the guns.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:48 pm

MRandall25 wrote:No, it isn't. It shows that our culture IS the problem. Not the guns.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Gun control specifics? Anyone?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:50 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Gun control specifics? Anyone?


Why because you have individuals that fly off the handle and commit massive amounts of grotesque violence? If people want to kill they will kill. Hell if I felt like it I could learn how to make explosives in about 15 minutes.

But background checks on purchases would be nice.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:51 pm

Maybe a psych evaluation.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shmenguin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:52 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Gun control specifics? Anyone?


I'm not arguing specifics. I doubt anyone here is even qualified to get into this that deep. But to completely deny that tighter controls would help some gun violence...that's absurd. I don't even think you believe what you're writing in that regard.

This is probably how this thread goes all the time, isn't it? People converting grey into black and white.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:56 pm

shmenguin wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Gun control specifics? Anyone?


I'm not arguing specifics. I doubt anyone here is even qualified to get into this that deep. But to completely deny that tighter controls would help some gun violence...that's absurd. I don't even think you believe what you're writing in that regard.

This is probably how this thread goes all the time, isn't it? People converting grey into black and white.


I've stated several times already that I support common sense laws on gun ownership. I don't know how much more clearly I can state that.

My point is that the vast majority of the gun control lobby is long on pathos and short on logos.
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