LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

[mac5155]

60% of Republicans, 25% of Democrats own guns:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/

Should be "60% of Republicans, 25% of Democrats ADMIT to owning guns"

I was thinking "legally" own one, but I guess that's better.

[mac5155]

Not really sure why Nate Silver is so shocked. A lot of Republicans = rural voters = hunters = more likely to own a gun. More likely than say....Montgomery County. Ho hum

Weird though, every time you hear about homicide its usually in the big city.

[Troy Loney]

Lol at these insinuations.

[Tico Rick]

Not really sure why Nate Silver is so shocked. A lot of Republicans = rural voters = hunters = more likely to own a gun. More likely than say....Montgomery County. Ho hum

I don't think Nate is all that shocked:

It will come as no surprise to those with a passing interest in American politics that Republicans are more likely to own guns than Democrats.

[mac5155]

Lol at these insinuations.

Show me where rural homicides outnumber urban homicides and you can call them an insinuation.

[Troy Loney]

Yeah, i think he's just putting together numbers for facts that we already know.

[Troy Loney]

Lol at these insinuations.

Show me where rural homicides outnumber urban homicides and you can call them an insinuation.

Who the hell is talking about crime, it's about gun ownership and why gun control is a partisan issue.

[Sarcastic]

Shyster. How do you feel carrying your gun everywhere? I'm trying to think how I would feel and I think it would change my psyche. The thought makes me a little uncomfortable. If I'd be going to dinner with my girl and had the laughs and all that. I dunno. The idea that I have a gun hidden would likely put a damper on things. Maybe you put it in the back of your mind. I'm also not sure how a girl would feel going on a date with a dude with a gun.

Also, where do you put it when you go to the beach? You seem like a sexy speedos kinda guy.

[TheHammer24]

I'm not sure what bearing this has on the conversation, but I must say that I do not think there is any "need" to carry a gun, period. Perhaps you derive utility from doing so independent of the need. that's another argument. But the chance that you will confront of situation in which your possession will create a positive difference has to be virtually non-existent, especially when contrasted with the potential that your possession creates a negative difference (e.g. you accidentally shoot your knee cap, or you get shot instead of punched in the face).

[Gaucho]

Double entendre city

[CBear3]

Funny story:
Guy goes on rant about people not knowing how to handle their guns while in our hobby shop the other day. Pretty much states verbatim the NRA's position of teach 1st graders about guns, arm schools, etc. Then turns to the customer next to him, who we all know is a cop. Asks him, "Hey Brandon, you know what I'm talking about. It's always certain types of people that are getting in trouble and doing stupid things with their guns." The tone was blatantly racist, and the cop looked at him, smiled, and said, "Yeah, nearly all the stupid gun crimes I see are white dudes." We had to scrape the customer off the ceiling while the cop explained that we live in a suburban, mostly white community, so most of the trouble therefor is caused by whites.

[Digitalgypsy66]

SC Legislator prefiles a bill allowing concealed weapons on public school campuses: http://www.scnow.com/news/politics/arti ... f6878.html

Good times, yo. My wife, an elementary school administrator, is not interested in carrying a pistol to work.

I'm sure plenty of these bills are getting prefiled around the country.

[Sarcastic]

Armored backpacks and an assaut rifle buying frenzy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50255928

[mac5155]

At least the economy is getting stimulated.

[tifosi77]

That's kind of the point though. A burglar isn't going to waste time on a house that has loud dogs. Too much risk. Just go to a place that's quiet. When we had alarm companies to our house for estimates each one said the best deterrents, in order, were an alarm sign (shocker), a barking dog, and good outside lighting. It doesn't matter if the burglar can shut the dog up once he's inside because he doesn't want to deal with it. Almost all burglars are about the quick and easy take.

It's all about the risk-reward.

If your house has been targeted for a specific reason - something the burglar knows you have in your house and wants to get - a noisy dog is no better than a 50-50 thing, at best.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/334904/violent-britain-charles-c-w-cooke

The article alludes to differences in the way crimes are tabulated and data collated resulting in a possibly misleading 5:1 ratio between the UK and the U.S. However, I maintain that the ratio is likely even higher because of the way figures are collected. For example, in Britain, unless a crime results in a criminal prosecution it does not get factored into the statistics. It is estimated that fewer than 40% of crimes that have been committed end up in the aggregate statistics. (I'm unaware of the breakdown of those crimes, unfortunately) So that 5:1 ratio might more accurately be represented as 7:1 or 8:1.

[Shyster]

Shyster. How do you feel carrying your gun everywhere?

I wouldn’t say I feel any different. I’ve had a permit for years, and by this time tucking a gun into my pocket or a waist holster doesn’t feel any different to me than grabbing my car keys and cell phone on the way out the door.

I don’t carry a gun because I expect that something bad will happen to me. I carry for the same reason I always wear a seat belt when driving. When I leave the house to drive somewhere, do I expect to get into a crash? Of course not. In fact, serious auto accidents are relatively rare compared to the number of cars on the road, and I would consider myself a safe driver. On any given day, the chances of crashing are low. But if I do happen to win the lottery and get into a serious accident, the odds of being gravely injured or killed are much higher if I’m not wearing a belt. So I buckle on the belt just in case. It’s really the same reason I carry a gun. I don’t expect that I will get into a situation that would require it, but in the very rare event that I do, I believe I would have a better chance of avoiding serious injury or death if I have a means of defending myself.

Also, where do you put it when you go to the beach? You seem like a sexy speedos kinda guy.

I don’t go to beaches. Not only would no one want to see my fat butt in a swimsuit, I also sunburn like one of my recent ancestors was a vampire.

[Alejandro Rojas]

Spoiler:

[Shyster]

I'm not sure what bearing this has on the conversation, but I must say that I do not think there is any "need" to carry a gun, period. Perhaps you derive utility from doing so independent of the need. that's another argument. But the chance that you will confront of situation in which your possession will create a positive difference has to be virtually non-existent, especially when contrasted with the potential that your possession creates a negative difference (e.g. you accidentally shoot your knee cap, or you get shot instead of punched in the face).

There have been multiple studies and surveys over the years that have attempted to qualify how many times per year guns are used in acts of self-defense. In a 1993 study conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist, he concluded that there are around two million defensive gun uses (DGUs) per year by law-abiding citizens. Other studies have come up with the range of 800,000 to 2.5 million. http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html Why don’t you hear about these? For one thing, not every DGU actually results in shots being fired. For example, an assault or robbery can be forestalled by the intending victim simply pointing his or her gun at the would-be aggressor. Many DGUs aren’t even reported to the police.

I think I’ve told this story before, but a buddy of mine years ago was walking back to his car with his wife and children after attending an event. A homeless guy asked him for money, and when he refused the man started following them. As he followed them, his language changed from requests into threats of violence. Eventually, my buddy turned around and pulled his snubnose revolver just far enough out of his front pocket so that the other guy could see it. The homeless guy immediately turned around and ran away. My friend didn’t bother calling the police, as the guy would have been long gone by the time they would have arrived. He put his kids in the car and went home. I would call that a DGU, even though no shots were fired and no police were involved. The mere presence of my friend’s gun was enough to stop an encounter before it could have escalated into the violence that was actively being threatened.

If you want to read about DGUs, the NRA maintains a blog called the Armed Citizen (http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx), which collects news reports of people using guns for self-defense. There are more than 7 pages of news reports of DGUs for Pennsylvania alone.

[shmenguin]

Shyster. How do you feel carrying your gun everywhere?

I wouldn’t say I feel any different. I’ve had a permit for years, and by this time tucking a gun into my pocket or a waist holster doesn’t feel any different to me than grabbing my car keys and cell phone on the way out the door.

I don’t carry a gun because I expect that something bad will happen to me. I carry for the same reason I always wear a seat belt when driving. When I leave the house to drive somewhere, do I expect to get into a crash? Of course not. In fact, serious auto accidents are relatively rare compared to the number of cars on the road, and I would consider myself a safe driver. On any given day, the chances of crashing are low. But if I do happen to win the lottery and get into a serious accident, the odds of being gravely injured or killed are much higher if I’m not wearing a belt. So I buckle on the belt just in case. It’s really the same reason I carry a gun. I don’t expect that I will get into a situation that would require it, but in the very rare event that I do, I believe I would have a better chance of avoiding serious injury or death if I have a means of defending myself.

what would you do if you got held up at gun point for your wallet? what about knife point?

this is where i wouldn't necessarily want to carry a gun. i imagine i would be tempted to try to pull it out instead of simply handing over my money.

[shmenguin]

I think I’ve told this story before, but a buddy of mine years ago was walking back to his car with his wife and children after attending an event. A homeless guy asked him for money, and when he refused the man started following them. As he followed them, his language changed from requests into threats of violence. Eventually, my buddy turned around and pulled his snubnose revolver just far enough out of his front pocket so that the other guy could see it. The homeless guy immediately turned around and ran away. My friend didn’t bother calling the police, as the guy would have been long gone by the time they would have arrived. He put his kids in the car and went home. I would call that a DGU, even though no shots were fired and no police were involved. The mere presence of my friend’s gun was enough to stop an encounter before it could have escalated into the violence that was actively being threatened.

i've been faced with this situation multiple times. it's been my experience that not engaging with them in any way is always the best move.

[mac5155]

Shyster. How do you feel carrying your gun everywhere?

I wouldn’t say I feel any different. I’ve had a permit for years, and by this time tucking a gun into my pocket or a waist holster doesn’t feel any different to me than grabbing my car keys and cell phone on the way out the door.

I don’t carry a gun because I expect that something bad will happen to me. I carry for the same reason I always wear a seat belt when driving. When I leave the house to drive somewhere, do I expect to get into a crash? Of course not. In fact, serious auto accidents are relatively rare compared to the number of cars on the road, and I would consider myself a safe driver. On any given day, the chances of crashing are low. But if I do happen to win the lottery and get into a serious accident, the odds of being gravely injured or killed are much higher if I’m not wearing a belt. So I buckle on the belt just in case. It’s really the same reason I carry a gun. I don’t expect that I will get into a situation that would require it, but in the very rare event that I do, I believe I would have a better chance of avoiding serious injury or death if I have a means of defending myself.

what would you do if you got held up at gun point for your wallet? what about knife point?

this is where i wouldn't necessarily want to carry a gun. i imagine i would be tempted to try to pull it out instead of simply handing over my money.

I'd probably give him my wallet, and shoot him in the leg as he walked away. Then work my way up higher if things got out of hand

[shmenguin]

Shyster. How do you feel carrying your gun everywhere?

I wouldn’t say I feel any different. I’ve had a permit for years, and by this time tucking a gun into my pocket or a waist holster doesn’t feel any different to me than grabbing my car keys and cell phone on the way out the door.

I don’t carry a gun because I expect that something bad will happen to me. I carry for the same reason I always wear a seat belt when driving. When I leave the house to drive somewhere, do I expect to get into a crash? Of course not. In fact, serious auto accidents are relatively rare compared to the number of cars on the road, and I would consider myself a safe driver. On any given day, the chances of crashing are low. But if I do happen to win the lottery and get into a serious accident, the odds of being gravely injured or killed are much higher if I’m not wearing a belt. So I buckle on the belt just in case. It’s really the same reason I carry a gun. I don’t expect that I will get into a situation that would require it, but in the very rare event that I do, I believe I would have a better chance of avoiding serious injury or death if I have a means of defending myself.

what would you do if you got held up at gun point for your wallet? what about knife point?

this is where i wouldn't necessarily want to carry a gun. i imagine i would be tempted to try to pull it out instead of simply handing over my money.

I'd probably give him my wallet, and shoot him in the leg as he walked away. Then work my way up higher if things got out of hand

interesting. seems like there would be a lot of hassle stemming from that course of action.

[mac5155]

interesting. seems like there would be a lot of hassle stemming from that course of action.

I only think, and someone else here probably knows better than I, that I am allowed to use non-deadly force to recover property from a petty thief.

[Sarcastic]

That's a good question. Maybe Shyster knows. I thought you can only shoot someone if you're in immediate danger. If the guy is already walking away with his back to you, you probably can't shoot him?

[mac5155]

That's a good question. Maybe Shyster knows. I thought you can only shoot someone if you're in immediate danger. If the guy is already walking away with his back to you, you probably can't shoot him?

To kill, I doubt it. But like I said, I would shoot at the legs, not trying to kill. I guess it's a slippery slope and I can't speculate what I'd do since I've never been in the situation.