LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 am

shafnutz05 wrote:14 years ago, he opposed an ambassador's nomination because he referred to him as "openly, aggressively gay". That doesn't exactly sound like a beacon of tolerance :pop:


The key part there is 14 years ago. And I don't think he'll have much input into domestic gay rights issues as Sec. of Defense. ;)

shafnutz05 wrote:McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One.


You have to admit that the John McCain that ran against Bush in the primaries (and who I voted for) and the John McCain we saw in 2008 were two wildly different candidates.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:55 am

Agree with your first point...yeah, I don't think his comments on gay rights will be a factor, but I think it's a part of who he is.

Also agree that 2008 McCain was certainly different. My point still remains that the media establishment LOVES Republicans that talk trash on other Republicans.

columbia, the Israeli lobby does seem to be exercising a lot of influence on the Hagel pick.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:14 am

shafnutz05 wrote:The media and Democratic love affair with Republicans that "buck the party line" is always entertaining (albeit totally understandable). McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One. Currently, I would venture to say that Chris Christie is working hard to grab that title, and he is enjoying the hell out of the positive press he is getting.


Oh, please Shaf. The same goes for the likes of ex Governor of GA Zell Miller and his duel stunt. Also, senator Shelby from Abalama switched parties in 1994. It's just that more high profile republicans are disagreeing with the GOP and switching to Democrat(ic) party in recent years.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:16 am

Factorial wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The media and Democratic love affair with Republicans that "buck the party line" is always entertaining (albeit totally understandable). McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One. Currently, I would venture to say that Chris Christie is working hard to grab that title, and he is enjoying the hell out of the positive press he is getting.


Oh, please Shaf. The same goes for the likes of ex Governor of GA Zell Miller and his duel stunt. Also, senator Shelby from Abalama switched parties in 1994. It's just that more high profile republicans are disagreeing with the GOP and switching to Democrat(ic) party in recent years.


where's Abalama? :pop:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:18 am

I was thinking of Zell Miller when I made that comment. I don't recall the fawning media coverage then, but I was also a much younger man. I agree with your last point, and that's one of the reasons why I'm pretty sure the Republican Party is dying a slow death (combined with increasing minority demographics and ever-rising percentages of the population that rely on entitlements).
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:23 am

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... _opinion_0

"At one point several weeks ago," Mr. Boehner says, "the president said to me, 'We don't have a spending problem.' "

The president's insistence that Washington doesn't have a spending problem, Mr. Boehner says, is predicated on the belief that massive federal deficits stem from what Mr. Obama called "a health-care problem." Mr. Boehner says that after he recovered from his astonishment—"They blame all of the fiscal woes on our health-care system"—he replied: "Clearly we have a health-care problem, which is about to get worse with ObamaCare

But, Mr. President, we have a very serious spending problem." He repeated this message so often, he says, that toward the end of the negotiations, the president became irritated and said: "I'm getting tired of hearing you say that."

Mr. Boehner confirms that at one critical juncture he asked Mr. Obama, after conceding on $800 billion in new taxes, "What am I getting?" and the president replied: "You don't get anything for it. I'm taking that anyway."
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:26 am

Oftentimes, it seems as if the president is portrayed as this helpless figure that is simply at the mercy of the partisan hacks in Congress, specifically Boehner, McConnell and others. Obama has a reputation as being a pretty ruthless (even unscrupulous) negotiator, and he isn't exactly a saint when it comes to working with his political opposites.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:27 am

I don't think the R party is dying as much as it's cannibalizing itself. So many studies have shown that most voting Americans lean toward being fiscally conservative but they are also socially liberal. If the R's could put up a candidate that was at least centrist on social issues, I think they'd have a great chance of winning a national election. The problem is they can't get out of the primaries where the ultra socially conservative voters turn out in droves.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:30 am

Yes, I should have mentioned that (along with the other reasons I mentioned) as another reason the R's are self-destructing. The grassroots popularity for candidates like Ron Paul isn't an ideological fluke.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:31 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The media and Democratic love affair with Republicans that "buck the party line" is always entertaining (albeit totally understandable). McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One. Currently, I would venture to say that Chris Christie is working hard to grab that title, and he is enjoying the hell out of the positive press he is getting.


Oh, please Shaf. The same goes for the likes of ex Governor of GA Zell Miller and his duel stunt. Also, senator Shelby from Abalama switched parties in 1994. It's just that more high profile republicans are disagreeing with the GOP and switching to Democrat(ic) party in recent years.


where's Abalama? :pop:


That's what Georgians call Alabama.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:34 am

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html?mod=ITP_opinion_0

"At one point several weeks ago," Mr. Boehner says, "the president said to me, 'We don't have a spending problem.' "

The president's insistence that Washington doesn't have a spending problem, Mr. Boehner says, is predicated on the belief that massive federal deficits stem from what Mr. Obama called "a health-care problem." Mr. Boehner says that after he recovered from his astonishment—"They blame all of the fiscal woes on our health-care system"—he replied: "Clearly we have a health-care problem, which is about to get worse with ObamaCare

But, Mr. President, we have a very serious spending problem." He repeated this message so often, he says, that toward the end of the negotiations, the president became irritated and said: "I'm getting tired of hearing you say that."

Mr. Boehner confirms that at one critical juncture he asked Mr. Obama, after conceding on $800 billion in new taxes, "What am I getting?" and the president replied: "You don't get anything for it. I'm taking that anyway."

Can you say Sequester? I knew you could. :)

I hope the R's understand the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...".

This was so easy to predict I almost feel guilty saying "I told you so"
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:36 am

Factorial wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The media and Democratic love affair with Republicans that "buck the party line" is always entertaining (albeit totally understandable). McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One. Currently, I would venture to say that Chris Christie is working hard to grab that title, and he is enjoying the hell out of the positive press he is getting.


Oh, please Shaf. The same goes for the likes of ex Governor of GA Zell Miller and his duel stunt. Also, senator Shelby from Abalama switched parties in 1994. It's just that more high profile republicans are disagreeing with the GOP and switching to Democrat(ic) party in recent years.


where's Abalama? :pop:


That's what Georgians call Alabama.


I thought they called them SEC champions... :)

Spoiler:
Hopefully soon to be National Champions - I hate the "Tide" but I hate ND worse... :pop:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:36 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
King Sid the Great 87 wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html?mod=ITP_opinion_0

"At one point several weeks ago," Mr. Boehner says, "the president said to me, 'We don't have a spending problem.' "

The president's insistence that Washington doesn't have a spending problem, Mr. Boehner says, is predicated on the belief that massive federal deficits stem from what Mr. Obama called "a health-care problem." Mr. Boehner says that after he recovered from his astonishment—"They blame all of the fiscal woes on our health-care system"—he replied: "Clearly we have a health-care problem, which is about to get worse with ObamaCare

But, Mr. President, we have a very serious spending problem." He repeated this message so often, he says, that toward the end of the negotiations, the president became irritated and said: "I'm getting tired of hearing you say that."

Mr. Boehner confirms that at one critical juncture he asked Mr. Obama, after conceding on $800 billion in new taxes, "What am I getting?" and the president replied: "You don't get anything for it. I'm taking that anyway."

Can you say Sequester? I knew you could. :)

I hope the R's understand the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...".

This was so easy to predict I almost feel guilty saying "I told you so"


And we are supposed to believe all of these quotes are authentic? The big, bad, mean Obama hurt Boehner's feelings.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:41 am

Factorial wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
King Sid the Great 87 wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html?mod=ITP_opinion_0

"At one point several weeks ago," Mr. Boehner says, "the president said to me, 'We don't have a spending problem.' "

The president's insistence that Washington doesn't have a spending problem, Mr. Boehner says, is predicated on the belief that massive federal deficits stem from what Mr. Obama called "a health-care problem." Mr. Boehner says that after he recovered from his astonishment—"They blame all of the fiscal woes on our health-care system"—he replied: "Clearly we have a health-care problem, which is about to get worse with ObamaCare

But, Mr. President, we have a very serious spending problem." He repeated this message so often, he says, that toward the end of the negotiations, the president became irritated and said: "I'm getting tired of hearing you say that."

Mr. Boehner confirms that at one critical juncture he asked Mr. Obama, after conceding on $800 billion in new taxes, "What am I getting?" and the president replied: "You don't get anything for it. I'm taking that anyway."

Can you say Sequester? I knew you could. :)

I hope the R's understand the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...".

This was so easy to predict I almost feel guilty saying "I told you so"


And we are supposed to believe all of these quotes are authentic? The big, bad, mean Obama hurt Boehner's feelings.

Oh hell no, only Democratic politicians tell the truth, we all know every Republican lies

Of course, the fact that Pelosi said essentialy the same thing on MtP yesterday...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:48 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
King Sid the Great 87 wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html?mod=ITP_opinion_0

"At one point several weeks ago," Mr. Boehner says, "the president said to me, 'We don't have a spending problem.' "

The president's insistence that Washington doesn't have a spending problem, Mr. Boehner says, is predicated on the belief that massive federal deficits stem from what Mr. Obama called "a health-care problem." Mr. Boehner says that after he recovered from his astonishment—"They blame all of the fiscal woes on our health-care system"—he replied: "Clearly we have a health-care problem, which is about to get worse with ObamaCare

But, Mr. President, we have a very serious spending problem." He repeated this message so often, he says, that toward the end of the negotiations, the president became irritated and said: "I'm getting tired of hearing you say that."

Mr. Boehner confirms that at one critical juncture he asked Mr. Obama, after conceding on $800 billion in new taxes, "What am I getting?" and the president replied: "You don't get anything for it. I'm taking that anyway."

Can you say Sequester? I knew you could. :)

I hope the R's understand the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...".

This was so easy to predict I almost feel guilty saying "I told you so"


i think you mean Bush's "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...well, you cant get fooled again."
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:53 am

Hockeynut! wrote:I don't think the R party is dying as much as it's cannibalizing itself. So many studies have shown that most voting Americans lean toward being fiscally conservative but they are also socially liberal. If the R's could put up a candidate that was at least centrist on social issues, I think they'd have a great chance of winning a national election. The problem is they can't get out of the primaries where the ultra socially conservative voters turn out in droves.

:thumb: case in point, rick santorum in 2011/12
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:54 am

mac5155 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:I don't think the R party is dying as much as it's cannibalizing itself. So many studies have shown that most voting Americans lean toward being fiscally conservative but they are also socially liberal. If the R's could put up a candidate that was at least centrist on social issues, I think they'd have a great chance of winning a national election. The problem is they can't get out of the primaries where the ultra socially conservative voters turn out in droves.

:thumb: case in point, rick santorum in 2011/12


I didn't think this required a response, (It seems almost self-evident) but...

+1
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:56 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:Oh hell no, only Democratic politicians tell the truth, we all know every republican lies.


:thumb:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:01 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One.


You have to admit that the John McCain that ran against Bush in the primaries (and who I voted for) and the John McCain we saw in 2008 were two wildly different candidates.

Yeah, while McCain could still be a 'normal' Republican in 2000, so could I. He was my guy. Then he got Rove'd and lost the plot and became something of a lunatic in 2008 and hasn't been likable since.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:06 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:McCain was the original "maverick Republican" gold standard, and he received glowing treatment from the major media outlets, right up until he ran for president against the Chosen One.


You have to admit that the John McCain that ran against Bush in the primaries (and who I voted for) and the John McCain we saw in 2008 were two wildly different candidates.

Yeah, while McCain could still be a 'normal' Republican in 2000, so could I. He was my guy. Then he got Rove'd and lost the plot and became something of a lunatic in 2008 and hasn't been likable since.



I think what you're seeing is the "Hey kid, get off my lawn..." effect.

I think he's extremely bitter over having lost in 2008 and since public opinion no longer matters to him, you're seeing it displayed.

He still does a lot of good, (three amigos for instance), but I no longer think he cares to control his tongue. Sort of the Jack Welch of politics :)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:08 pm

its a shame, i was going to vote for him until he picked rock-head for VP
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:11 pm

Kaizer wrote:its a shame, i was going to vote for him until he picked rock-head for VP


Probbaly the single biggest bonehead move, in a presidental campaign, that I can think of since I first paid attention to Presidential elections in 1968. (Watergate not withstanding)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:36 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
mac5155 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:I don't think the R party is dying as much as it's cannibalizing itself. So many studies have shown that most voting Americans lean toward being fiscally conservative but they are also socially liberal. If the R's could put up a candidate that was at least centrist on social issues, I think they'd have a great chance of winning a national election. The problem is they can't get out of the primaries where the ultra socially conservative voters turn out in droves.

:thumb: case in point, rick santorum in 2011/12


I didn't think this required a response, (It seems almost self-evident) but...

+1


I was going to reply that the Republicans need to run someone that can rock the stage on Leno, make Letterman laugh and stop letting SNL parody "comments" that were never said. Think, hip, loveable, media-friendly candidate.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:41 pm

Bruce Willis?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:22 pm

BigMcK wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
mac5155 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:I don't think the R party is dying as much as it's cannibalizing itself. So many studies have shown that most voting Americans lean toward being fiscally conservative but they are also socially liberal. If the R's could put up a candidate that was at least centrist on social issues, I think they'd have a great chance of winning a national election. The problem is they can't get out of the primaries where the ultra socially conservative voters turn out in droves.

:thumb: case in point, rick santorum in 2011/12


I didn't think this required a response, (It seems almost self-evident) but...

+1


I was going to reply that the Republicans need to run someone that can rock the stage on Leno, make Letterman laugh and stop letting SNL parody "comments" that were never said. Think, hip, loveable, media-friendly candidate.


I'll settle for someone who can lead the country away from the massive dysfunctional system that we currently have.

I've had enough of "cult of personality" type {cough} leaders {cough}
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