LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:01 pm

http://www.nasro.org/

Yup, "school resource officers" are armed law enforcement officers in schools.

After the NRA was absolutely ripped to shreds by the media and everyone else for suggesting this, I wonder how it is going to be received as an executive order from Obama.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:01 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Anyone else wondering what a "school resource officer" is?

An armed guard, perhaps?


Police officers assigned to shcools. Almost every high school has them but they were there to break up fights.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:02 pm



Out of the 23, 8 deal with mental health and ACA changes, 7 are saftey related and doing what the NRA said to do a month a go, 7 have to do with strengthening background checks before purchase and after crimes take place including traceability and then nominated an ATF director which should be stricken because it adds to his incomopetence of not doing it at any time before today.

I'm failing to see though how any of these prevents a 20 year old from murdring his mother to steal her guns to shoot up a shcool. What am I missing here?
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:05 pm

Who is going to pay for these mental health reforms that the NRA (and Obama) are pushing?
I thought the former would be against such a thing....Then again, they decry video games AND release their own too, so who knows.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,888
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:07 pm

columbia wrote:Who is going to pay for these mental health reforms that the NRA (and Obama) are pushing?
I thought the former would be against such a thing....Then again, they decry video games AND release their own too, so who knows.


The data is out there but isn't reported up I hope because it's so subjective instead of people just not doing it. There would need to be standardization before and in any case I'm not comfortable with this at all. There would be nothing from the CDC and HHS finding that people who want to by guns have a mental illness so that would block them from buying guns.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:13 pm

columbia wrote:Then again, they decry video games AND release their own too, so who knows.


First, let me say I think the NRA comes off as asinine when they attempt to blame violent video games and movies for mass shootings.

That being said, the stink made over their own video game is silly and overblown. It is an iPhone app where you use a gun and shoot it at targets. As in targets with a bullseye. You can't really compare a game like that to something like, say, Call of Duty, where in one mission you stroll slowly through an airport massacring civilians.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:14 pm

I think it's silly to get riled up about any of them.

What's the next slogan?

"Guns don't kill people, video games kill people"
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,888
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:18 pm

columbia wrote:I think it's silly to get riled up about any of them.

What's the next slogan?

"Guns don't kill people, video games kill people"


Oh, I completely agree. I just thought the hypocrisy of that was way overplayed, although the timing was stupid.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:21 pm

It's like blaming pr0n for teenage pregnancy rates.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,888
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby viva la ben on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:22 pm

From what I've seen the pro gun lobby was certain an AWB would be one of the EOs. Obama is sending that to congress(where it will most likely die). The antis are gonna be mad about the lack of gun bans, and the pros are gonna be mad because its Obama.
viva la ben
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,887
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:45 am
Location: Location: Location

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:32 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
columbia wrote:I think it's silly to get riled up about any of them.

What's the next slogan?

"Guns don't kill people, video games kill people"


Oh, I completely agree. I just thought the hypocrisy of that was way overplayed, although the timing was stupid.


Video games certainly aren't a root cause for these shootings but what happens when you take someone with mental health issues and all they do is sit in a dark basement playing call of duty night and day? What happens when they are told to stop cold turkey? Could that person snap and then think he's still in a game? Not saying that's exactly what hapened in Sandy Hook but Lanza brought several magazines and performed changes even before the were spent like he might have been reloading like he was in a video game.

Crazy people haveing access to anything violent is never a good situation. But that's on parenting and today's culture to make sure you are raising your kids right.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:33 pm

DelPen wrote: and then nominated an ATF director which should be stricken because it adds to his incomopetence of not doing it at any time before today.


From 12/7/12:

President Obama’s nominee to be ATF’s permanent director is Andrew Traver, who oversees the bureau’s Chicago office. But his nomination has been stalled in the Senate for two years because Traver raised the ire of the gun lobby with comments it has characterized as anti-firearm.


and even Bush couldn't get his guy a hearing:

No permanent ATF director has been on the job in the six years since Congress required that the position be confirmed by the Senate. That action allowed the gun lobby to have a say on Capitol Hill about the agency’s leadership, according to ATF officials.

Even Michael J. Sullivan, a former U.S. attorney in Boston nominated by President George W. Bush, could not get confirmed. He was blocked by three senators who accused him of being hostile to gun dealers. One of the senators was a member of the NRA’s board of directors.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/investiga ... story.html
Factorial
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,123
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Gleefully Ignorant

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:35 pm

Either pick a new candidate or disband the department.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:37 pm

Why would they hire the ATF guy from Chicago, which has a gun ban, but also one of the worst gun homicide numbers in the country?

Shows me he can't do his job.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,692
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:42 pm

Maybe he should have nominated the corpse of Charlton Heston.
Factorial
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,123
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Gleefully Ignorant

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:49 pm

In fairness, this nomination makes zero sense, and I agree with DelPen's point that Chicago has horrible problems with gun violence, and some of the strictest laws on the books.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:49 pm

DelPen wrote:
columbia wrote:Who is going to pay for these mental health reforms that the NRA (and Obama) are pushing?
I thought the former would be against such a thing....Then again, they decry video games AND release their own too, so who knows.


The data is out there but isn't reported up I hope because it's so subjective instead of people just not doing it. There would need to be standardization before and in any case I'm not comfortable with this at all. There would be nothing from the CDC and HHS finding that people who want to by guns have a mental illness so that would block them from buying guns.

This is a huge issue with the background check system in this country.

Philosophically, I have no problem with submitting myself to a background check to purchase a gun. Practically, it's a huge issue. The National Instant Criminal Background Check system is riddled with errors. In CA alone it was learned that for every 100 background checks conducted there were about 28 that returned a hit that would disqualify the person. Upon delving deeper, it was further learned that an average of 27 of those 28 were the result of inaccurately reported data or even mistaken identity. That's a false positive rate of 97%..... and nationally, the rate is somewhere between 92% and 95%, so it's not like CA is some statistical outlier. So this push is expanding a system that simply does not work as intended.

And a root cause of the problem is what DelPen says -- only about a dozen states reliably share relevant information with the NICBC. So the other 30-odd states don't have the infrastructure in place to share info.

This needs to be a case of managed expectations. I fear people think that these laws will be passed and *poof* gun crime will drop. All that will drop is the levels of satisfaction with their government among law abiding gun owners.

columbia wrote:It's like blaming pr0n for teenage pregnancy rates.

Pr0n doesn't make people have sex...... but it does generally mean they have more creative sex. :P
Last edited by tifosi77 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,085
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:52 pm

Factorial wrote:Maybe he should have nominated the corpse of Charlton Heston.


Perhaps. Or maybe get serious and put in a non-partisan who would would simply do the agencies duties effectively. Part of the ATF's job is to facilitate approvals of regulated items under the NFA like select-fire weapons and suppressors. There is a 6 month back log in processing paperwork, probably longer now, that could be reduced by recognizing that part of the agencies mission statement. The director shouldn't be anti-gun, nominating someone who is is asking for a fight and stalemate.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:54 pm

Modern Warfare 2 has a level where the entire point is to perpetrate a mass shooting. You're supposed to fire at fleeing people. I remember thinking that was just beyond the point of and semblance of good taste the first time I played it.

What happens when a lonely, angry, and overmedicated kid plays that and feels like they finally have some sense of control in their life?
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,756
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:58 pm

I have a carry permit in SC. I had to submit finger prints and subject myself to a criminal background check to get it. The depth of the checking SC does, and some other states, exempts purchasers with a permit to need subsequent checks as long as that permit is valid which is great for me, it's like the express checkout lane. It's assumed that since I passed the check, and haven't done anything to lose it, that I'm fine.

I would like to see a national standard set for nationwide concealed carry in all 50 states and DC as well as be exempt from other types of checks where applicable. Let me VOLUNTARILY committ myself if I chose but I should also reap the rewards. I can opt out at any time ut my nationwide super permit is voided. But what this can do is show how many highly resonsible gun owners there are in this country. This would also help to reduce crime or at the very least you will have some hard data to measure.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:02 pm

I think the saving grace (if that's the right term) for that level of MW2 is that it is so early in the story and there's no....... emotional build up to it. You're just in Afghanistan shooting bad guys, then a voice over, then you go shoot civilians in Moscow.

If the game and story had been developed better, the level could have carried some real emotional weight and presented the player with a moral conundrum. It would have been infinitely more creepy, too. As it was, it was just..... there. It made it seem even more gratuitous, which was a real shame.
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,085
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:05 pm

DelPen wrote:I have a carry permit in SC. I had to submit finger prints and subject myself to a criminal background check to get it. The depth of the checking SC does, and some other states, exempts purchasers with a permit to need subsequent checks as long as that permit is valid which is great for me, it's like the express checkout lane. It's assumed that since I passed the check, and haven't done anything to lose it, that I'm fine.

I would like to see a national standard set for nationwide concealed carry in all 50 states and DC as well as be exempt from other types of checks where applicable. Let me VOLUNTARILY committ myself if I chose but I should also reap the rewards. I can opt out at any time ut my nationwide super permit is voided. But what this can do is show how many highly resonsible gun owners there are in this country. This would also help to reduce crime or at the very least you will have some hard data to measure.


Your proposing a new federal program?
Factorial
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,123
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Gleefully Ignorant

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:08 pm

http://telly.com/0O85UG

Nice. Watch the young girl rebuff VP Biden's touching of her face.
Alejandro Rojas
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:08 pm
Location: Aloha Means Goodbye

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:11 pm

That Biden video is horrifically creepy, and shamefully manipulative.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:12 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I think the saving grace (if that's the right term) for that level of MW2 is that it is so early in the story and there's no....... emotional build up to it. You're just in Afghanistan shooting bad guys, then a voice over, then you go shoot civilians in Moscow.

If the game and story had been developed better, the level could have carried some real emotional weight and presented the player with a moral conundrum. It would have been infinitely more creepy, too. As it was, it was just..... there. It made it seem even more gratuitous, which was a real shame.


That migth be even worse, if you have a dminished mental capacity and randomly killing people is "just there" with no consequences that could imapir future judgment in real life situations. You could say the same thing about Dungeons and Dragons, if you have mental issues and you get wrapped up in that world you could be more likley to go stab someone with what you think is a magic sword.

But the key here is these people would have to be clinicaly ill and identified as such and then get proper treatment. In a general sense that is not happening today. The alternative before was to drop these people off in mental hospitals with deplorable treatment but they were not in society. Has the increase in mass murders corelated with shutting down those facilities? Perhaps.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,388
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


e-mail