LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:01 pm

columbia wrote:I don't care if Hagel is confirmed, mind you:

So McCain is justifying blocking the nomination, because Chuck was critical of Bush and mean to his fellow Republicans in the Senate.

Is he a child?

Being critical of Bush, Repubs etc shouldn't be justification. But I believe Hagel,s problems deal with his past actions. He's not a supporter of Israel, he's an apoligist for Iran and recently he hid 2 speeches he made based on some technicality.
His anti-Israel views have been shown most of his career.http://www.cnn.com.sg/2013/01/13/opinio ... index.html
That being said I think presidents should have their cabinet nominees confirmed. I think the guy's a total jag and the military will be gutted once again. But he represents this administration's views well and Obama won the election.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:07 pm

elderly couple pulled over by armored police troops because of the sticker on their car.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/elderly-couple-pulled-over-buckeye-car-decal-mistaken-191317336--ncaaf.html

“Knowing I wasn’t speeding, I couldn’t imagine why,” Jonas-Boggioni told the Columbus Dispatch. “They were very serious. They had the body armor and the guns.”

On the back of Jonas-Boggioni’s car was a Buckeye leaf decal, similar to the one players’ have on their helmets, and cops mistakenly thought it was marijuana leaf.


even if it WAS a weed sticker, does that mean they can be pulled over by these guys?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:21 pm

Beyond ridiculous
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:53 pm

148 years later, Mississippi ratifies amendment banning slavery
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 8766.story

In all fairness, they just didn't properly complete the paperwork, after ratifying the 13th Amendment in 1995.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:04 am

columbia wrote:148 years later, Mississippi ratifies amendment banning slavery
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 8766.story

In all fairness, they just didn't properly complete the paperwork, after ratifying the 13th Amendment in 1995.

a nice symbolic gesture from a state that still keeps the confederate flag involved in its state flag. isn't mississippi usually at, or near, the bottom of almost every education index by state? they have more to worry about down there then shuffling paper around 18 years after a vote was taken.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:57 am

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/obama-the-puppet-master-87764.html

Obama boasted Thursday during a Google+ Hangout from the White House: “This is the most transparent administration in history.” The people who cover him day to day see it very differently.

“The way the president’s availability to the press has shrunk in the last two years is a disgrace,” said ABC News White House reporter Ann Compton, who has covered every president back to Gerald R. Ford. “The president’s day-to-day policy development — on immigration, on guns — is almost totally opaque to the reporters trying to do a responsible job of covering it. There are no readouts from big meetings he has with people from the outside, and many of them aren’t even on his schedule. This is different from every president I covered. This White House goes to extreme lengths to keep the press away.”


Conservatives assume a cozy relationship between this White House and the reporters who cover it. Wrong. Many reporters find Obama himself strangely fearful of talking with them and often aloof and cocky when he does. They find his staff needlessly stingy with information and thin-skinned about any tough coverage. He gets more-favorable-than-not coverage because many staffers are fearful of talking to reporters, even anonymously, and some reporters inevitably worry access or the chance of a presidential interview will decrease if they get in the face of this White House.


Martha Joynt Kumar, a political scientist at Towson University who works out of the White House press room and tallies every question a journalist asks the president, has found that in his first term Obama held brief press availabilities after photos ops or announcements one-third as often as George W. Bush did in his first term — 107 to Bush’s 355.


Pretty interesting insight into the opacity of the Obama presidency.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:57 am

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:41 pm

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/to ... chair.html
TSA in action again; this time detaining a 3 year old girl with spina bifida who's confined to a wheelchair. Capped off their diligence by taking her stuffed animal away reducing her to tears.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:04 pm

Unreal.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:58 pm

Remembering 1960s Afghanistan, the photographs of Bill Podlich
http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/20 ... otos/5846/
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:27 am

Image
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:16 am

Some more light reading at Time Magazine about my favorite aircraft, the F-35....

The Most Expensive Weapon Ever Built
The single-engine, single-seat F-35 is a real-life example of the adage that a camel is a horse designed by a committee.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:40 am

Okay, so I finally got around to actually reading the entire Esquire article about the bin Laden shooter.

The CIA analyst (Jessica Chastain in "Zero Dark Thirty") who briefed the SEALs told them that bin Laden would "definitely be on the third floor". When they got there, that's exactly where they found him. Bap-bap, and bap again for good measure. Upon their return to Jalalabad, the Shooter gave the CIA analyst the magazine from his rifle with the 27 un-fired rounds still in it as a memento.

For some reason I find that insanely cool.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:02 pm

This week in disgusting vulture style capitalism: setting up a shell company, destined for failure and bankruptcy, in order to offload retiree obligations. This is totally abhorrent and should not be stood for in any way, shape, or form.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1124 ... h-benefits


This is not a case of free markets doing what they do best: setting prices for commodities and distributing goods and services to market at fair and equitable prices. This is blatant gaming of the system, for the profit of the owners, at the expense of the labor that had committed their lives to making the company great and profitable. This folks, is class warfare. This hurts actual retired coal miners 1,000% more than Obama's supposed 'war on coal' And it was facilitated by greed. Pure capitalist greed at its very worst.
As the one miner in the article states: "It’s we’ve gotten all we’re going to get out of you guys, and you’re no more use to us now than a broken tool.”
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:08 pm

I'm sure someone here will mount a defense of such practices in the name of freedom.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:29 pm

columbia wrote:I'm sure someone here will mount a defense of such practices in the name of freedom.

Me,Me! I'll do it. I'm just leaving to get a tooth pulled though.
I don't know the specifics in this case but I'm sure there's another side to the story. The New Republic, with it's 800 readers, isn't exactly an unbiased source. As far as the mineworkers,the black lung claims have been rife with fraud for decades. The UMW is one of the most corrupt unions in the country although Trumpka hasn't murdered anyone like some early predecessors. That doesn't excuse this outfit if it did something illegal but the union can have its day in court if they broke the law. If the NLRB gets involved they have a slam dunk since Obama loaded it with labor stooges.
Since my great grandad was a coal miner in the late 1890's and brought my ancestors here by working the I do have a soft spot for them.

I'm always puzzled by outrage capitalist greed when union greed , entitlement greed and government greed are fine and dandy. It seems to me that one source of greed is as bad as another.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:17 pm

Geezer wrote:
columbia wrote:I'm sure someone here will mount a defense of such practices in the name of freedom.

Me,Me! I'll do it. I'm just leaving to get a tooth pulled though.
I don't know the specifics in this case but I'm sure there's another side to the story. The New Republic, with it's 800 readers, isn't exactly an unbiased source. As far as the mineworkers,the black lung claims have been rife with fraud for decades. The UMW is one of the most corrupt unions in the country although Trumpka hasn't murdered anyone like some early predecessors. That doesn't excuse this outfit if it did something illegal but the union can have its day in court if they broke the law. If the NLRB gets involved they have a slam dunk since Obama loaded it with labor stooges.
Since my great grandad was a coal miner in the late 1890's and brought my ancestors here by working the I do have a soft spot for them.

I'm always puzzled by outrage capitalist greed when union greed , entitlement greed and government greed are fine and dandy. It seems to me that one source of greed is as bad as another.


Why, on principal, shouldn’t the laborers, doing the actual physical work that makes the owners rich, have an organization that is representing their interests, making sure they get fair compensation for their work, and ensuring their safety and well being in terms of working conditions, and planning for their comfortable future once their bodies begin to break down and they can no longer perform the heavily physical work that has been the majority of their life? Did you ever check the safety records of Union vs. Non-Union mines? Its pretty black and white, not really up for debate.

Now do Unions sometimes overreach and hurt the workers they represent by demanding so much that it becomes easier for the owners just to pull up stakes and ship the factories overseas? Absolutely. That is 100% true. That is an honest problem that Unions have to deal with. But the answer, imho, is not to abolish Union representation all together.

As for something I find beyond ridiculous in your argument? Black lung is a fraud? Really? Something that has been confirmed in reputable medical journals to be the primary cause of thousands of deaths per year among miners is just made up? And is it just coincidence that since regulations became more lax and tests started to be skirted in the 1980s cases of CONFIRMED black lung disease has been on the rise, especially among young and otherwise healthy non-smoking workers in non-union mines?

As for your claims that Obama has stuff the NLRB with union stooges, I guess if you want to consider people who are going to look at cases brought before the board fairly and honestly instead of being a rubber stamp for moneyed industry interests, then yes, union stooges is what you can call them. The fact is though, before Obama was elected, the judiciary had been packed with pro-business, anti-union judges for 28 years under 3 GOP presidents and the most anti-union Democrat in the Whitehouse since Grover Cleveland. The playing field has certainly been tilted in my lifetime, and it has absolutely not been in favor of the workers.

As for the false equivalency you try to paint at the end by pointing out that unions are ‘greedy’, people on entitlements are ‘greedy’, and government is ‘greedy’, and that should justify corporations and rich people being as greedy as they want to be? I would ask you, who is really driving this greed filled society you try and portray? Is it the sick people in your community? The old? The impoverished? Are they to blame? The single mom working 3 part time jobs trying to make ends meet and providing for her family? Is she to blame? The union worker toiling in the mines, factories, and construction sites? Is he or she to blame? Or is that greed being driven down from the top echelons who have abandoned their social obligations in a manner not seen since the robber barons of the late 19th century? That, my friend, is what the heart of the story I posted gets to. Therein is where I see the fundamental problem of our age.
Last edited by Pucks_and_Pols on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:20 pm

When it comes to a union/pension/bankruptcy situation, its always interesting to see how many retired people are receiving benefits compared to how many people are currently employed by the business
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:21 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Some more light reading at Time Magazine about my favorite aircraft, the F-35....
The Most Expensive Weapon Ever Built

The F-35 strikes me as an excellent example of the military always fighting the last war. The United States hasn’t been in a conflict with an enemy that could give it a run in terms of air forces for decades. Air superiority has been pretty much a given. What we need are aircraft for support of ground operations, and IMO the Air Force would be best advised to invest in specialized ground-attack aircraft that can move in after the F-22s have cleared out the fighters in order to loiter over the battlefield and provide CAS. In other words, I think we need more aircraft in the vein of the A-10, an aircraft the Air Force essentially hates and has been trying to ditch for years. I know that the F-35 is supposed to replace the A-10, but that's like buying a sports car to replace a dump truck when in fact you really, really need a good dump truck.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:23 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:When it comes to a union/pension/bankruptcy situation, its always interesting to see how many retired people are receiving benefits compared to how many people are currently employed by the business


I agree Kenny, but in this specific case the deck was loaded to begin with. When they started this splinter "Patriot" company, they shifted 14% of their business and 40% of their retirement obligations to this shell that they seem to have planned to take bankrupt from the start. It was a pre-planned failure.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:15 pm

Pucks_and_Pols wrote:Why, on principal, shouldn’t the laborers, doing the actual physical work that makes the owners rich, have an organization that is representing their interests, making sure they get fair compensation for their work, and ensuring their safety and well being in terms of working conditions, and planning for their comfortable future once their bodies begin to break down and they can no longer perform the heavily physical work that has been the majority of their life?

In Geezer's defense, I don't think that was what he was saying at all.

Unions, in general, can be a great force for good. They have in fact brought about massive improvements in the working lives of untold millions and generations in this country. And from what I read, Geezer didn't say anything in contradiction to that.

But equally so, it simply cannot be credibly argued that in many cases the union leadership is more interested in consolidating their own power (as expressed politically) as they are in delivering actual benefits to their members. In that regard, the biggest labor unions cannot be said to be any more pure of heart than the corporations where their members are employed. Thus I believe his point was not that "unions are bad" but rather "why is greed from the labor side okay, but similar corruption from management evil?"

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:When it comes to a union/pension/bankruptcy situation, its always interesting to see how many retired people are receiving benefits compared to how many people are currently employed by the business

Depending on the company, I've seen the number as high as a 3:1 ratio. Meaning for every 3 pensions being paid, there was 1 actual worker in a plant or factory or business or what have you laboring for the company.

My favorite factoid that encapsulates that is the auto industry. At one point not too long ago, GMs hourly healthcare and pension/retirement plan cost per car was about $2,500. That included all their current employees, their benefits, and all retirement obligations (pensions and 401(k) contributions) actively being paid. That same statistic for Toyota was something like $250.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:34 pm

Shyster wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:Some more light reading at Time Magazine about my favorite aircraft, the F-35....
The Most Expensive Weapon Ever Built

The F-35 strikes me as an excellent example of the military always fighting the last war. The United States hasn’t been in a conflict with an enemy that could give it a run in terms of air forces for decades. Air superiority has been pretty much a given. What we need are aircraft for support of ground operations, and IMO the Air Force would be best advised to invest in specialized ground-attack aircraft that can move in after the F-22s have cleared out the fighters in order to loiter over the battlefield and provide CAS. In other words, I think we need more aircraft in the vein of the A-10, an aircraft the Air Force essentially hates and has been trying to ditch for years. I know that the F-35 is supposed to replace the A-10, but that's like buying a sports car to replace a dump truck when in fact you really, really need a good dump truck.

I certainly agree with you in the broadest sense of the word, but differ in the particulars.

Gone are the days of specialized platforms like the A-10, or F-111, or F-14 and F-15 (as the latter two were originally conceived). Aircraft today have be able to tackle a variety of mission profiles; better to have one plane that can perform several missions to 85% optimal capability, than five dedicated aircraft performing five separate missions to 100%. Strictly from a $$ and ¢¢ perspective, the mission benefits are not enough to mitigate the huge increase in costs to operate multiple types concurrently.

The F-35 brings a lot of shiny iPad-generation whiz bangs to the table, but where the rubber meets the road it can barely keep up with the types it's meant to replace. It's got 'stealth', which sounds great until you realize that low-observable design is a dated technology that likely cannot survive much more than 5-10 years into the future with the advances in passive sensor systems. And stealth is completely lost the moment you have any external stores under the wings...... which you have to do with the F-35 to get anything like a useful combat radius or meaningful weapons payload on the aircraft. Compounding matters is the complexity of the materials used in the construction of an aircraft like this; this is one of the biggest drivers of cost of production on a stealthy aircraft. (Altho the bugaboo with the F-35 has been its electronics.)

Plus, I'm inherently skeptical of a Navy jet with one engine.

The problems began from the earliest days of the program, when the decision was made during the Air Force's JSF program to make the winner of that flyoff the Jack of all trades to replace Navy and Marine aircraft. It doesn't work when you do it that way. You can take a Navy or Marine aircraft and jigger it around until it's suitable for the Air Force (like with the F-4 Phantom), but you can't reverse that process and 'navalize' an platform that wasn't designed from the get-go to fly off of boats. Look up the sad developmental history of the F-111B in the 1960s for more entertaining reading on the subject.

It's just a mess. The whole program is one gigantic, sloppy mess.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:39 pm

VPOTUS advocates breaking the law by indiscriminately firing off a shotgun from his home to ward off an intruder.


Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, put that double-barreled shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house. I promise you, whoever is coming in is not... you don't need an AR-15. It's harder to aim, it's harder to use, and in fact you don't need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun.... buy a shotgun.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:21 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Plus, I'm inherently skeptical of a Navy jet with one engine.

You mean like the A-4 Skyhawk, F-8 Crusader, and A-7 Corsair II? 8-)
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