LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue May 14, 2013 9:29 am

Troy Loney wrote:Pretty sure there's a difference between the unraveling in the government and talking points in the cable news circuit.

But agreed on the phone tapping, i'd like to hear the bogus justification the government gives for doing that.


To be fair, these scandals are moving well beyond the FNCs and Drudges of the media sphere. Wielding the IRS a as a political weapon is a big deal, regardless of whether POTUS had direct knowledge.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Troy Loney on Tue May 14, 2013 9:32 am

I mean, i'm sure all media outlets will pick up on it...but what does that really mean anyway?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue May 14, 2013 9:38 am

Image
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Tue May 14, 2013 11:18 am

inb4 it only works cause dem countries are so small.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Tue May 14, 2013 11:26 am

shafnutz05 wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/top-irs-official-didnt-reveal-tea-party-targeting-000016562.html

Congress was not told tea party groups were being inappropriately targeted by the Internal Revenue Service, even after acting agency Chief Steven Miller had been briefed on the matter.

Miller was first informed on May, 3, 2012, that applications for tax-exempt status by tea party groups were inappropriately singled out for extra scrutiny, the IRS said Monday.

At least twice after the briefing, Miller wrote letters to members of Congress to explain the process of reviewing applications for tax-exempt status without disclosing that tea party groups had been targeted. On July 25, 2012, Miller testified before the House Ways and Means oversight subcommittee, but again did not mention the additional scrutiny — despite being asked about it.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-claim-he-called-benghazi-an-act-of-terrorism/2013/05/13/7b65b83e-bc14-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_blog.html

But the president’s claim that he said “act of terrorism” is taking revisionist history too far, given that he repeatedly refused to commit to that phrase when asked directly by reporters in the weeks after the attack. He appears to have gone out of his way to avoid saying it was a terrorist attack, so he has little standing to make that claim now.

Indeed, the initial unedited talking points did not call it an act of terrorism. Instead of pretending the right words were uttered, it would be far better to acknowledge that he was echoing what the intelligence community believed at the time--and that the administration’s phrasing could have been clearer and more forthright from the start.


(And never mind the fact the talking points when through a staggering 11 revisions courtesy of the WH and State Department)

Perhaps the biggest new story that has just erupted:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/govt-obtains-wide-ap-phone-records-probe

The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative's top executive called a "massive and unprecedented intrusion" into how news organizations gather the news.

The records obtained by the Justice Department listed outgoing calls for the work and personal phone numbers of individual reporters, for general AP office numbers in New York, Washington and Hartford, Conn., and for the main number for the AP in the House of Representatives press gallery, according to attorneys for the AP. It was not clear if the records also included incoming calls or the duration of the calls.

In all, the government seized the records for more than 20 separate telephone lines assigned to AP and its journalists in April and May of 2012. The exact number of journalists who used the phone lines during that period is unknown, but more than 100 journalists work in the offices where phone records were targeted, on a wide array of stories about government and other matters.


This administration is unraveling at a staggering rate, and I'll be very curious to hear their justification for spying on the Associated Press for as long as they have. It's no longer shades of Nixon, it is Nixon. I think the kid gloves media treatment is long gone, so the next 3 1/2 years will be quite interesting.


Of course MSNBC and CNN are burying the biggest scandal we've seen in a long time
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Tue May 14, 2013 11:27 am

Last night they were still banging the war drums of gun control and anti-NRA propaganda
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Tue May 14, 2013 11:36 am

thepittman wrote:Last night they were still banging the war drums of gun control and anti-NRA propaganda


Obama blamed Rush Limbaugh for people in Congress still resisting what he wanted. Funny, my Senators, at least one of them anyways, and Rep are listening to their constituents. I'd say it's more likely the people voting for Obama's agenda are more likely to be going against the wishes of their constituents than those voting against it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue May 14, 2013 1:10 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Apparently the IRS knew conservative groups were being targeted for audits as early as 2011.

Just in the interest of sparking a debate, I'm going to put something out there for yinz to chew on.

The Tea Party - and many conservative groups - have at their core a certain set of beliefs about taxes and taxation. Is it therefore to be expected that when individuals of this persuasion band together to form a tax-exempt group that perhaps the IRS might have some justification in examining their returns a little more closely? The people in question are self-identifying as anti-tax, so it seems there's potentially a higher probability of shenanigans on their returns.

I do not believe that, by the way. But the thought occurred to me the other day and I forgot to post it here.

shafnutz05 wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-claim-he-called-benghazi-an-act-of-terrorism/2013/05/13/7b65b83e-bc14-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_blog.html

But the president’s claim that he said “act of terrorism” is taking revisionist history too far, given that he repeatedly refused to commit to that phrase when asked directly by reporters in the weeks after the attack. He appears to have gone out of his way to avoid saying it was a terrorist attack, so he has little standing to make that claim now.

Indeed, the initial unedited talking points did not call it an act of terrorism. Instead of pretending the right words were uttered, it would be far better to acknowledge that he was echoing what the intelligence community believed at the time--and that the administration’s phrasing could have been clearer and more forthright from the start.


(And never mind the fact the talking points when through a staggering 11 revisions courtesy of the WH and State Department)

I have no idea why 11 rounds of revisions is supposed to be 'staggering', unless think you've found meat on a fossilized bone.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue May 14, 2013 1:16 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Just in the interest of sparking a debate, I'm going to put something out there for yinz to chew on.

The Tea Party - and many conservative groups - have at their core a certain set of beliefs about taxes and taxation. Is it therefore to be expected that when individuals of this persuasion band together to form a tax-exempt group that perhaps the IRS might have some justification in examining their returns a little more closely? The people in question are self-identifying as anti-tax, so it seems there's potentially a higher probability of shenanigans on their returns.

I do not believe that, by the way. But the thought occurred to me the other day and I forgot to post it here.


Yeah I have seen others on the net make that claim. The problem is that well, you are punishing legit free speech with targeted harassment by federal officials.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue May 14, 2013 1:21 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:Just in the interest of sparking a debate, I'm going to put something out there for yinz to chew on.

The Tea Party - and many conservative groups - have at their core a certain set of beliefs about taxes and taxation. Is it therefore to be expected that when individuals of this persuasion band together to form a tax-exempt group that perhaps the IRS might have some justification in examining their returns a little more closely? The people in question are self-identifying as anti-tax, so it seems there's potentially a higher probability of shenanigans on their returns.

I do not believe that, by the way. But the thought occurred to me the other day and I forgot to post it here.


Yeah I have seen others on the net make that claim. The problem is that well, you are punishing legit free speech with targeted harassment by federal officials.

I'm against using drones for domestic assassinations too... Does that make me a valid target? :shock:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue May 14, 2013 1:34 pm

Well, think about it it terms of things like Stop-And-Frisk or the NYPD Islamic student group spy infiltration thing. Do you have similar objections in those instances? You're essentially profiling to identify a high-probability target/suspect.

ExPatriatePen wrote:I'm against using drones for domestic assassinations too... Does that make me a valid target? :shock:

It better not, or we're both screwed................ :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Tue May 14, 2013 2:28 pm

Anyone catch Carney's daily presser today? Very aggressive questioning by the press, guess the administration pissed on the wrong group of people with the wire tapping of AP.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue May 14, 2013 2:30 pm

How is he not impeached yet?

Benghazi
IRS
AP
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue May 14, 2013 3:12 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Apparently the IRS knew conservative groups were being targeted for audits as early as 2011.

Just in the interest of sparking a debate, I'm going to put something out there for yinz to chew on.

The Tea Party - and many conservative groups - have at their core a certain set of beliefs about taxes and taxation. Is it therefore to be expected that when individuals of this persuasion band together to form a tax-exempt group that perhaps the IRS might have some justification in examining their returns a little more closely? The people in question are self-identifying as anti-tax, so it seems there's potentially a higher probability of shenanigans on their returns.

I do not believe that, by the way. But the thought occurred to me the other day and I forgot to post it here.


That's an interesting point and one probably worth considering. I don't know exactly which groups in particular we are talking about, but if it is the kind that want to fight taxation and who also arm themselves to prepare for the 'upcoming' war against the 'tyrannical' US government (like the new doofus who's replacing current head of NRA), then I'm not surprised they would be examined more closely than the rest of us.

If it was purely politically motivated, than Obama does have a problem on his hands.

I also don't understand spying on those AP reporters. What would anyone hope to discover?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue May 14, 2013 3:14 pm

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130514/EU--Russia-US-Spying/

MOSCOW (AP) — A U.S. diplomat disguised in a blond wig was caught red-handed as he tried to recruit a Russian counterintelligence officer in Moscow, Russia's security services announced Tuesday, claiming the American was a CIA officer.

Ryan Fogle, a third secretary at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, was carrying special technical equipment, disguises, written instructions and a large sum of money when he was detained overnight, Russia's Federal Security Service said.

The FSB, which is the successor to the Soviet-era KGB, said Fogle was trying to recruit a Russian counterterrorism officer who specializes in the Caucasus, a region in southern Russia that includes Chechnya and Dagestan.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue May 14, 2013 3:15 pm

I guess this is the best place for it...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200411/nation-wimps

With few challenges all their own, kids are unable to forge their creative adaptations to the normal vicissitudes of life. That not only makes them risk-averse, it makes them psychologically fragile, riddled with anxiety. In the process they're robbed of identity, meaning and a sense of accomplishment, to say nothing of a shot at real happiness. Forget, too, about perseverance, not simply a moral virtue but a necessary life skill. These turn out to be the spreading psychic fault lines of 21st-century youth. Whether we want to or not, we're on our way to creating a nation of wimps.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:01 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:Image


Can't believe everything you read on the internet:

Image

In all seriousness... these are great anecdotes, but Finland is a country of ~5 million people with relatively low population growth rate. Hardly a reasonably comparison to the US. Portugal's biggest citys are coastal towns mostly under 100k people, and Lisbon has a high comparable per capita income figure at ~$31k; thats not per household, but per person. And the Iceland bit is laughable... Not only have they IN NO WAY recovered, but the GDP of Iceland is $14 billion...

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:ISL&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

To put that in perspective, there are ~700 US companies with Sales greater than $14 billion last year
Last edited by Pitt87 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Tue May 14, 2013 4:10 pm

Following the Finnish model of education would be a good start. Not a cure-all, but would bring improvement. And it would probably be a good start with the other two areas as well.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:17 pm

MWB wrote:Following the Finnish model of education would be a good start. Not a cure-all, but would bring improvement. And it would probably be a good start with the other two areas as well.


I said DON'T believe it... not do believe it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue May 14, 2013 4:33 pm

Finnish education could work, if we trained teachers to the same rigor as we trained doctors. Obviously you can't take the bums we have teaching now and all of a sudden pay them doctor salaries lol.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Tue May 14, 2013 4:39 pm

I don't think anyone is saying that. The whole point is the training that they do.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:49 pm

Sarcastic wrote:http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130514/EU--Russia-US-Spying/

MOSCOW (AP) — A U.S. diplomat disguised in a blond wig was caught red-handed as he tried to recruit a Russian counterintelligence officer in Moscow, Russia's security services announced Tuesday, claiming the American was a CIA officer.

Ryan Fogle, a third secretary at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, was carrying special technical equipment, disguises, written instructions and a large sum of money when he was detained overnight, Russia's Federal Security Service said.

The FSB, which is the successor to the Soviet-era KGB, said Fogle was trying to recruit a Russian counterterrorism officer who specializes in the Caucasus, a region in southern Russia that includes Chechnya and Dagestan.

I call shenanigans...... they claim to have found a written letter containing instructions to the proposed 'recruit'. That's like Tradecraft 101 -- DON'T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN.

I wonder if this is some kind of backlash against the U.S. for it coming out that the Russians were less-than-forthcoming when talking about the Tsarnaev matter?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:53 pm

Gaucho at 7:18 am wrote:inb4 it only works cause dem countries are so small.

Pitt87 at 12:01 pm wrote:To put that in perspective, there are ~700 US companies with Sales greater than $14 billion last year


:wink:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Tue May 14, 2013 5:23 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130514/EU--Russia-US-Spying/

MOSCOW (AP) — A U.S. diplomat disguised in a blond wig was caught red-handed as he tried to recruit a Russian counterintelligence officer in Moscow, Russia's security services announced Tuesday, claiming the American was a CIA officer.

Ryan Fogle, a third secretary at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, was carrying special technical equipment, disguises, written instructions and a large sum of money when he was detained overnight, Russia's Federal Security Service said.

The FSB, which is the successor to the Soviet-era KGB, said Fogle was trying to recruit a Russian counterterrorism officer who specializes in the Caucasus, a region in southern Russia that includes Chechnya and Dagestan.

I call shenanigans...... they claim to have found a written letter containing instructions to the proposed 'recruit'. That's like Tradecraft 101 -- DON'T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN.

I wonder if this is some kind of backlash against the U.S. for it coming out that the Russians were less-than-forthcoming when talking about the Tsarnaev matter?


I am sure we still have our spies in Russia and vice-versa, though I don't know what happened in this particular case. I'll be watching since it sounds like a James Bond movie, lol.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue May 14, 2013 5:49 pm

I'm on my phone so I can't post the link but there was a famous Russian spy just a few years ago in NY, she was drop dead gorgeous.

Edit: Anna Chapman - do a google search
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