LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed May 15, 2013 3:49 pm

Rylan wrote:
Factorial wrote:But seriously EPP, we have a philosophical difference on how rewards should be distributed. In my mind, efficiency is not the be all end all.


What is the be all end all?


Paying a living wage.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed May 15, 2013 3:50 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:But seriously EPP, we have a philosophical difference on how rewards should be distributed. In my mind, efficiency is not the be all end all.


The company that I'm currently providing consulting servces for didn'r exist 11 years ago, today they have approximately 1500 direct employees and probably have created another 2,000 jobs in the Value Added Reseller channel.

I'd say the average employee probably makes about 90K.

How is that a bad thing?

Sure the company is agressive and effecient, but thats how they've been able to create so many high paying jobs. They never would have been successful if they weren't so aggressive.


I was referring to the restaurants, etc that pay minimum wage. Esp. the corporate owned ones that dominate America today.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed May 15, 2013 3:55 pm

Factorial wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:But seriously EPP, we have a philosophical difference on how rewards should be distributed. In my mind, efficiency is not the be all end all.


The company that I'm currently providing consulting servces for didn'r exist 11 years ago, today they have approximately 1500 direct employees and probably have created another 2,000 jobs in the Value Added Reseller channel.

I'd say the average employee probably makes about 90K.

How is that a bad thing?

Sure the company is agressive and effecient, but thats how they've been able to create so many high paying jobs. They never would have been successful if they weren't so aggressive.


I was referring to the restaurants, etc that pay minimum wage. Esp. the corporate owned ones that dominate America today.


So what's your answer? $10 Big Mac's?

If you learn a skill or get a degree in a high demand field, you'll make better than a living wage.

It's not encumbant on me to pay $10 for a big mac because joe-sixpack didn't feel like studying more.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed May 15, 2013 4:01 pm

If they price a BM at $10 then don't buy one.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Wed May 15, 2013 4:03 pm

If they price the BM at $10 then fewer employees would be required because sales would go down. If sales go down then the company starts failing thus causing an elimination of jobs.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed May 15, 2013 4:14 pm

No, they would drop the price and settle for less in profits. Anyway, I need to go and play with my new vag com that I received in the mail today. :pop:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Wed May 15, 2013 4:25 pm

But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Wed May 15, 2013 4:46 pm

Factorial wrote:
Rylan wrote:
Factorial wrote:But seriously EPP, we have a philosophical difference on how rewards should be distributed. In my mind, efficiency is not the be all end all.


What is the be all end all?


Paying a living wage.


So, does that mean you get to pay everyone the same?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed May 15, 2013 4:48 pm

Sarcastic wrote:But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.


The vast majority of businesses are small businesses run by people who's money is all tied into the business. Raising the minimum wage won't hurt McDonald's, it will hurt the local mom and pop burger joint that won't be able to compete.

You want to make things "fair" then stop using these massive companies services and products.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Wed May 15, 2013 4:57 pm

Sarcastic wrote:But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.


You are leaving out that a fair amount of Americans are overextended on personal debt racked up for material wants, school loans, etc... Added to the ever increasing taxes the government takes to pay for what they believe my money should be spent on, and yeah, a good portion of Americans might be living paycheck to paycheck. It's not as simple as pointing a finger at those "rich pigs".
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Wed May 15, 2013 5:02 pm

DelPen wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.


The vast majority of businesses are small businesses run by people who's money is all tied into the business. Raising the minimum wage won't hurt McDonald's, it will hurt the local mom and pop burger joint that won't be able to compete.

You want to make things "fair" then stop using these massive companies services and products.


That's a good point. Like I said, the whole system isn't designed well. Scary thing is that it keeps moving more in the direction of having an incredibly rich top class, less and less middle class, and an increasing poor sector. I don't have a solution, but I do know where the money is accumulated and where the money keeps flowing like a wild river.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed May 15, 2013 5:03 pm

We want more, we want more, we really like cheap stuff, we want more!
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Wed May 15, 2013 5:06 pm

BigMcK wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.


You are leaving out that a fair amount of Americans are overextended on personal debt racked up for material wants, school loans, etc... Added to the ever increasing taxes the government takes to pay for what they believe my money should be spent on, and yeah, a good portion of Americans might be living paycheck to paycheck. It's not as simple as pointing a finger at those "rich pigs".


Listen, when education costs as much as it does, when healthcare costs as much as it does, when banks charge an arm and a leg to borrow money while ripping you in the bunghole any way they can, this outcome shouldn't surprise anyone. This isn't as much personal responsibilty anymore, when masses across the US don't have money. It's the system perpetuated by the rich with the help of the government.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Wed May 15, 2013 5:10 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
BigMcK wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.


You are leaving out that a fair amount of Americans are overextended on personal debt racked up for material wants, school loans, etc... Added to the ever increasing taxes the government takes to pay for what they believe my money should be spent on, and yeah, a good portion of Americans might be living paycheck to paycheck. It's not as simple as pointing a finger at those "rich pigs".


Listen, when education costs as much as it does, when healthcare costs as much as it does, when banks charge an arm and a leg to borrow money while ripping you in the bunghole any way they can, this outcome shouldn't surprise anyone. This isn't as much personal responsibilty anymore, when masses across the US don't have money. It's the system perpetuated by the rich with the help of the government.


I'd like to be rich without the help of the government.

Isn't about to happen, but a poor broke American can still dream...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Wed May 15, 2013 5:18 pm

Sarcastic wrote:But EPP, not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. A country also needs a lot of less skilled workers who do the real hard job, unlike a lot of the high earners. I think the average CEO makes 380 times more than a normal worker, a sharp rise from 20-30 years ago. That's not fair, is it. What you have is rich pigs creating what we can basically call 'slave labor' and exploiting these people to amass riches they will never spend in their lifetime. This entire system is out of whack. I think they should pass a law, maybe doubling today's minimum wage. Salaries have actually grown less and less over the years, while the cost of living has climbed up. Then we wonder why 40-50% Americans live paycheck to paycheck.


Ironic... you think that the problem is that the system is out of whack, but that government should step in and make laws. Are you sure what you're describing isn't why the laws are designed?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby doublem on Wed May 15, 2013 5:19 pm

my company gives the same bonus to everyone. OMG.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed May 15, 2013 5:53 pm

DelPen wrote:The vast majority of businesses are small businesses run by people who's money is all tied into the business. Raising the minimum wage won't hurt McDonald's, it will hurt the local mom and pop burger joint that won't be able to compete.

Not to mention that McDonald's and similar companies sell franchises, which in many cases are owned by local small businessmen. McDonalds, Burger King, Subway, etc. certainly don't own all of their own stores. In fact, I bet the main company owns few if any.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed May 15, 2013 6:06 pm

Shyster wrote:
DelPen wrote:The vast majority of businesses are small businesses run by people who's money is all tied into the business. Raising the minimum wage won't hurt McDonald's, it will hurt the local mom and pop burger joint that won't be able to compete.

Not to mention that McDonald's and similar companies sell franchises, which in many cases are owned by local small businessmen. McDonalds, Burger King, Subway, etc. certainly don't own all of their own stores. In fact, I bet the main company owns few if any.

IIRC there are Zero company owned Subways. $tarbuck$ is a different story, all most all of their stores are company owned (except those in airports or in places like turnpike rest stops)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed May 15, 2013 6:10 pm

Factorial wrote:No, they would drop the price and settle for less in profits. Anyway, I need to go and play with my new vag com that I received in the mail today. :pop:

I have no idea what a "vag com" is or how one "plays" with one, but I felt compelled to quote this post just the same.

BigMcK wrote:Added to the ever increasing taxes the government takes....

Effective tax rates - meaning the amount people actually pay as a share of their income - are about 25% lower today than they were during the Reagan administration.

Shyster wrote:Not to mention that McDonald's and similar companies sell franchises, which in many cases are owned by local small businessmen. McDonalds, Burger King, Subway, etc. certainly don't own all of their own stores. In fact, I bet the main company owns few if any.

In almost all cases, McDonald's owns the real property of each store location. However, less than 10% of the profit generated by McDonald's business is from company-owned stores. (Which only number ~5,000 worldwide, or about 14% of the 34,000 global locations.)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed May 15, 2013 6:56 pm

The lawyer who defended the New York Times in the Pentagon Papers case says that Obama is worse for freedom of the press than Nixon was:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... nixon.html
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby viva la ben on Wed May 15, 2013 7:02 pm

What the heck is a vag com?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed May 15, 2013 7:11 pm

viva la ben wrote:What the heck is a vag com?


NSFW:

Spoiler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAG-COM
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed May 15, 2013 8:17 pm

Thou hast sold me a bill of goods.

:evil:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed May 15, 2013 9:03 pm

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pensfan1989 on Wed May 15, 2013 11:42 pm

Factorial wrote:
Rylan wrote:
Factorial wrote:But seriously EPP, we have a philosophical difference on how rewards should be distributed. In my mind, efficiency is not the be all end all.


What is the be all end all?


Paying a living wage.


What is a living wage exactly?
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