LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu May 16, 2013 11:00 am

Welp, I have yet to get a $100,000 medical bill.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu May 16, 2013 11:00 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:Hospital rates are based on BIGFOOT LANDING ON MARS AND FARTING OUT A PRICELIST. Seriously, they are based on absolutely nothing. Someone back in 1958 set a book of prices, and they set it to increase by X% every year and now adays you are paying $50 for an aspirin, $90 for a REUSABLE SHEET. Someone with insurance or medicare is paying way way way less.

Those rates were just made public recently, and they're absolutely appalling. It's enough to induce rage looking at how completely arbitrary the pricing is. Take the cost of something common, like changing a pacemaker implant. Jackson Memorial hospital in Miami charges $66,000. University of Miami charges $127,000 for that procedure. The two hospitals are across the street from each other; the front doors are literally like 1000' apart.

Joint replacement surgery in Oklahoma? $5,000. Same surgery in Monterey, CA? Quarter million.

There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. At least when Medicare and Medicaid calculate their reimbursement rate, they are actually taking into account the factors that influence the cost of providing these services, including the incremental cost of operating the hospital for all the other care being provided, the cost of the medical professionals, the equipment, etc. So the Medicare costs are much more reflective of the actual cost of care and various procedures. The hospital rates appear to be pulled out of someone's butt.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby AlexPKeaton on Thu May 16, 2013 11:06 am

tifosi77 wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Hospital rates are based on BIGFOOT LANDING ON MARS AND FARTING OUT A PRICELIST. Seriously, they are based on absolutely nothing. Someone back in 1958 set a book of prices, and they set it to increase by X% every year and now adays you are paying $50 for an aspirin, $90 for a REUSABLE SHEET. Someone with insurance or medicare is paying way way way less.

Those rates were just made public recently, and they're absolutely appalling. It's enough to induce rage looking at how completely arbitrary the pricing is. Take the cost of something common, like changing a pacemaker implant. Jackson Memorial hospital in Miami charges $66,000. University of Miami charges $127,000 for that procedure. The two hospitals are across the street from each other; the front doors are literally like 1000' apart.

Joint replacement surgery in Oklahoma? $5,000. Same surgery in Monterey, CA? Quarter million.

There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. At least when Medicare and Medicaid calculate their reimbursement rate, they are actually taking into account the factors that influence the cost of providing these services, including the incremental cost of operating the hospital for all the other care being provided, the cost of the medical professionals, the equipment, etc. So the Medicare costs are much more reflective of the actual cost of care and various procedures. The hospital rates appear to be pulled out of someone's butt.


Yep.

And my solution is not even "big government". It costs the government nothing. The government already employs people that create and manage the medicare price list. You just pass a law that says "any non profit hospital must charge everyone the medicare prices". If a hospital doesn't want to comply, fine, they just have to start paying taxes. So no more gobbling up prime real estate in every city in the US because they don't have to pay property taxes.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu May 16, 2013 11:08 am

#UPMC
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu May 16, 2013 11:13 am

thepittman wrote:We are living in the best possible time in history for humanity. Everything is available to you in this country and if you think you are living rough, you haven't visited the rest of the world.

Why is the standard of global comparisons a good thing in this case, but ERHMAGERD for things like, say, universal healthcare?

Compared to most of the world, we have a fabulous standard of living. There is no doubt. I'm reminded of the meme of the young African kid outside his hut looking skeptical with the caption "Wait, you mean to tell me you have so much fresh water you **** in it?"

"Well, our poor are better off than the poor in Namibia. Job well done everyone!" But why is does that standard have to be the end of it? Let's not sprain our shoulders slapping ourselves on the back because the poorest amongst us are better situated than some 3rd world backwood. That's like bragging about being the world's tallest midget.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu May 16, 2013 11:27 am

tifosi77 wrote:
DelPen wrote:Before anyone starts crying about the working poor look at the choices they have made to get to that position. I would bet a large majority of them are spending a lot of money on things like DirecTV, Cell phones, iPad's and eating out almost every day and night.

Having come from a very poor background, and therefore having lived amongst other very poor people most of my childhood, I'd take that bet in a heartbeat.


Ditto.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu May 16, 2013 12:51 pm

tifosi77 wrote:"Well, our poor are better off than the poor in Namibia. Job well done everyone!" But why is does that standard have to be the end of it? Let's not sprain our shoulders slapping ourselves on the back because the poorest amongst us are better situated than some 3rd world backwood. That's like bragging about being the world's tallest midget.


But we aren't talking about "the man" keeping the poor people living in horrendous third world conditions.

It's about what level of obligation society bares in providing goods and services. More importantly, it's about the method society uses to provide those goods and services.

It's being mandated through forceful confiscation of the goods of hardworking productive members of society.

So, I can understand someone arguing for food and shelter for those unable to provide that for themselves, (note the word unable, not unwilling), but when it comes to people who have basic food, shelter and clothing, is it still ethical to confiscate even more so that those same people have cable, cell phones, and smokes?

Whether you're willing to admit it or not, you're not getting the majority of that tax revenue from Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, you're getting it from the middle class. Hard working people who are the backbone of our society.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby rasbatch on Thu May 16, 2013 1:00 pm

I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu May 16, 2013 1:03 pm

Another drive-by contribution from rasbatch. :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby rasbatch on Thu May 16, 2013 1:10 pm

columbia wrote:Another drive-by contribution from rasbatch. :lol:

Well I'm usually hard at work, because I've got an entire ghetto to support. :roll:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu May 16, 2013 1:11 pm

:fist:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Thu May 16, 2013 1:17 pm

This is a good article that explains how large corporations are able to dodge paying corporate taxes.

http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/corporate_tax_dodgers

Right now the high tax rates are only hurting small and middle size businesses. Raising the tax rates isn't an effective way to raise revenue as the large corporations will continue to dodge paying taxes unless the tax loopholes in the article are closed.

I believe that the tax loopholes need to be closed but once they are, the corporate tax rate also needs to be reduced similar to the rates used by European countries.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:30 pm

rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu May 16, 2013 1:31 pm

This seems appropriate here....

Ad Agency Employee Drops Dead in Office from 'Work-Related Exhaustion'
http://gawker.com/ad-agency-employee-dr ... socialflow
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:32 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:This is a good article that explains how large corporations are able to dodge paying corporate taxes.

http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/corporate_tax_dodgers

Right now the high tax rates are only hurting small and middle size businesses. Raising the tax rates isn't an effective way to raise revenue as the large corporations will continue to dodge paying taxes unless the tax loopholes in the article are closed.

I believe that the tax loopholes need to be closed but once they are, the corporate tax rate also needs to be reduced similar to the rates used by European countries.


Slippery slope, tax too much and there is no incentive to maintain a HQ in the US.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu May 16, 2013 1:33 pm

thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.


And you think that most poor people fit that description, no?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby rasbatch on Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 pm

thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.

yes you do, you think all poor people are lazy. But you'll gladly pay those taxes so some corporation doesn't have to. You'll complain
about someone stealing pennies when someone else is robbing you blind. How much of your tax dollars do you think goes to welfare,
food stamps all that combined? All of that wouldn't fund the pentagon for 2 minutes. :D :D
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 pm

columbia wrote:This seems appropriate here....

Ad Agency Employee Drops Dead in Office from 'Work-Related Exhaustion'
http://gawker.com/ad-agency-employee-dr ... socialflow


China is in an late 19th early 20th century development mode. They are battling the same problems that existed during the industrial revolution that we passed workers rights laws to prevent. It's kind of funny that the US is a better country for workers rights than a Communist/Capitalist hybrid country. I don't know if there is a proper term for the state that China is in currently
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:38 pm

rasbatch wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.

yes you do, you think all poor people are lazy. But you'll gladly pay those taxes so some corporation doesn't have to. You'll complain
about someone stealing pennies when someone else is robbing you blind. How much of your tax dollars do you think goes to welfare,
food stamps all that combined? All of that wouldn't fund the pentagon for 2 minutes. :D :D

I'm not going to talk with someone who is going to put words in my mouth and generalize everyone that doesn't agree with them as militarist neo-cons
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:40 pm

MWB wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.


And you think that most poor people fit that description, no?

If you are of able body and mind there are opportunities out there that provide healthcare and a decent living. I know because I did it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby rasbatch on Thu May 16, 2013 1:42 pm

thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.

yes you do, you think all poor people are lazy. But you'll gladly pay those taxes so some corporation doesn't have to. You'll complain
about someone stealing pennies when someone else is robbing you blind. How much of your tax dollars do you think goes to welfare,
food stamps all that combined? All of that wouldn't fund the pentagon for 2 minutes. :D :D

I'm not going to talk with someone who is going to put words in my mouth and generalize everyone that doesn't agree with them as militarist neo-cons

I don't have to put words in your mouth It's all in your posts. Your contempt for some of your fellow americans is obvious.
I never called you a militarist neo-con, that your inference.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby slappybrown on Thu May 16, 2013 1:42 pm

thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.

yes you do, you think all poor people are lazy. But you'll gladly pay those taxes so some corporation doesn't have to. You'll complain
about someone stealing pennies when someone else is robbing you blind. How much of your tax dollars do you think goes to welfare,
food stamps all that combined? All of that wouldn't fund the pentagon for 2 minutes. :D :D

I'm not going to talk with someone who is going to put words in my mouth and generalize everyone that doesn't agree with them as militarist neo-cons

thepittman wrote:Poor people use there money for booze, drugs, and used luxury cars they can't afford.


Hard to construe what you said as anything other than somewhere between "most" to "all" poor people.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu May 16, 2013 1:46 pm

thepittman wrote:
MWB wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.


And you think that most poor people fit that description, no?

If you are of able body and mind there are opportunities out there that provide healthcare and a decent living. I know because I did it.


There are many people who work very hard, don't make much money, and don't leech off the system. Just because you're poor doesn't mean you're taking government assistance. I know, because that's the environment in which I was raised. Things have changed for my parents since then, but it took a long time.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:52 pm

slappybrown wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.

yes you do, you think all poor people are lazy. But you'll gladly pay those taxes so some corporation doesn't have to. You'll complain
about someone stealing pennies when someone else is robbing you blind. How much of your tax dollars do you think goes to welfare,
food stamps all that combined? All of that wouldn't fund the pentagon for 2 minutes. :D :D

I'm not going to talk with someone who is going to put words in my mouth and generalize everyone that doesn't agree with them as militarist neo-cons

thepittman wrote:Poor people use there money for booze, drugs, and used luxury cars they can't afford.


Hard to construe what you said as anything other than somewhere between "most" to "all" poor people.

Except that I didn't use "most" or "all". From my experience though, poor people that are not heavily religious are on the other side of the spectrum.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby thepittman on Thu May 16, 2013 1:53 pm

MWB wrote:
thepittman wrote:
MWB wrote:
thepittman wrote:
rasbatch wrote:I hate the poor too, they're just so damn lazy. I prefer that my hardwork gets confiscated so we can kill other countries poor people.


No one hates poor people, I just don't like people acting as leeches to the system who are not disabled in some form.


And you think that most poor people fit that description, no?

If you are of able body and mind there are opportunities out there that provide healthcare and a decent living. I know because I did it.


There are many people who work very hard, don't make much money, and don't leech off the system. Just because you're poor doesn't mean you're taking government assistance. I know, because that's the environment in which I was raised. Things have changed for my parents since then, but it took a long time.


I was raised the same way too, but I felt I was in the minority being raised that way. I would go to other peoples houses growing up and their parents would be drunk fighting with each other so most of time we would spend out on the streets skateboarding.
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