LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:56 pm

Sarcastic wrote:http://news.msn.com/us/obamas-approval-rating-falls-after-scandals
President Barack Obama's approval rating fell in the past month, from 53 percent in mid-May to 45 percent today, a CNN poll revealed.

Image


If I were obama id be very happy with that number. If I were me id wonder how it were possible.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:12 pm

so you're not you?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:14 pm



I wrote poetry in the womb. It was rubbish, though, like most adolescent poetry.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:08 pm

Barry glomming onto JFK's Berlin speech(Ich bin ein Berliner) 50 years ago today. Obama's teleprompter version should be remembered as Ich bin ein Deutschbagger to reflect Barry's persona.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:19 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Shyster wrote:Recent Facebook update from Rand Paul:

Senator Ted Cruz asks a good question: "Anyone know if President Obama intends to perform background checks on the Syrian rebels before providing them weapons?"

The only way that would be logically consistent as a burn is if Senator Paul advocates simply giving the rebels guns sans vetting. Which he does not. So he does, in essence, support background checks on the rebels.

So that's a fail.


I don't read that the same way you do.

I read it that Rand is simply stating that Sen Cruz is being the inconsistant by giving the Syrian Rebels more trust than US citizens when it comes to acquiring weapons.

It has nothing to do with Sen Pauls stance on either arming the Syrian rebels (Which he does NOT support) or on the second ammendment which he does support.

amirong?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby redwill on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:26 pm

I don't read that the same way you do.

I read it as otherwise very intelligent people being tragically corrupted by the process into thinking that sound-bite-zingers are useful substitutes for rational discourse and political leadership. Sort of like message-board-itus.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:27 pm

That's my favorite part of this thread
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:46 pm

CAVEAT: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE US GOVERNMENT BY POSING THIS HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.

Suppose a group of would be terrorists needs a secure communication channel and they decide to all register for accounts on a gardening message board.
At that point, they use the PM system to communicate.

At some point, the feds - who are tracking their traffic - notice this commonality.
Being resourceful people, they deduce what is happening.

So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:49 pm

Given the ample amount of probable cause, I allow them access. I'm not sure where you're going with this?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:51 pm

I'm wondering where the line is.....I don't know what the answer is.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:55 pm

columbia wrote:I'm wondering where the line is.....I don't know what the answer is.


I mean, the Verizon case (to name one) seems to have absolutely zero probable cause, just widespread surveillance.

If the government is currently watching several known extremists, and all of a sudden they ALL create accounts on the same website, that is a reasonable argument to me.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:57 pm

I'd just like to know the frackin' rationalization of the various media/interwebz companies to go so much further than that in their cooperation.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Intimidation? Sycophantism?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:31 pm

Given some of the responses on here, I think the American people get *exactly* the government that they deserve
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:09 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Given some of the responses on here, I think the American people get *exactly* the government that they deserve


Are you looking to fight somebody again? :scared:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:12 pm

columbia wrote:I'd just like to know the frackin' rationalization of the various media/interwebz companies to go so much further than that in their cooperation.


Yeah, that's totally puzzling to me. It could very well be intimidation. Or heads of these big corporations may have closer ties to the government than even we realize? I know that I would have expected them to fight such federal orders, go to court, etc.. Nope, they just give in.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:13 am

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/19/19042422-feds-2-plotted-to-build-hiroshima-light-switch-weapon

Two upstate New York men, one of them said to be a member of the Ku Klux Klan, plotted to build a truck-mounted, industrial-strength X-ray weapon to kill “enemies of Israel” by poisoning them with radiation, federal authorities said Wednesday.

One of them boasted that he could build a “Hiroshima light switch” and that “everything with respiration would be dead by morning,” authorities said.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:59 am

Apparently the FLA tea party people are threatening to primary Rubio.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:05 pm

columbia wrote:CAVEAT: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE US GOVERNMENT BY POSING THIS HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.

Suppose a group of would be terrorists needs a secure communication channel and they decide to all register for accounts on a gardening message board.
At that point, they use the PM system to communicate.

At some point, the feds - who are tracking their traffic - notice this commonality.
Being resourceful people, they deduce what is happening.

So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?


All depends on this: http://www.letsgopens.com/privacy.php

I will not share or sell any personal or visit information obtained from you with any other person or organization ever.


Some sites indicate that if you are doing something illegal on my website, its your own fault and I'll sell you down the river in a heartbeat. Others don't, and absolutely have a right to reserve in that respect.

Governments don't have the right to require private citizens to expose their private information, period. The harder they press, especially in a fashion that is Constitutionally indefensible as the NSA's programs, the better criminals will get at shrouding their secrets.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BigMcK on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:47 pm

I would guess the government isn't going to disclose why they are requesting access with the person that runs a message board. A nice visit from some people in dark suits would intimidate a lot of people to just comply.

depending on the size of the board, how many small guys could afford legal advice?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:54 pm

Pitt87 wrote:

Governments don't have the right to require private citizens to expose their private information, period. The harder they press, especially in a fashion that is Constitutionally indefensible as the NSA's programs, the better criminals will get at shrouding their secrets.


It's not exactly as black and white as that. (Note: I make my living in this field, on the techncal side)

http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/en ... -amendment

The Fricosu case raises a thorny legal question. Does revealing a key or password to encrypted documents constitute self-incrimination? The judge in this case ruled no, stating that Ms. Fricosu's production of a password is identical to producing a document identified by the prosecutor. In the judge’s opinion, an exchange wherein the prosecution is aware of the existence of evidence and merely requests it from the defendant—rather than attempting to force the defendant to divulge the existence of evidence—is not protected under the Fifth Amendment.

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:16 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:

Governments don't have the right to require private citizens to expose their private information, period. The harder they press, especially in a fashion that is Constitutionally indefensible as the NSA's programs, the better criminals will get at shrouding their secrets.


It's not exactly as black and white as that. (Note: I make my living in this field, on the techncal side)

http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/en ... -amendment

The Fricosu case raises a thorny legal question. Does revealing a key or password to encrypted documents constitute self-incrimination? The judge in this case ruled no, stating that Ms. Fricosu's production of a password is identical to producing a document identified by the prosecutor. In the judge’s opinion, an exchange wherein the prosecution is aware of the existence of evidence and merely requests it from the defendant—rather than attempting to force the defendant to divulge the existence of evidence—is not protected under the Fifth Amendment.



Keyword here is defendant. Snooping on private citizens' activity or communication is very different than a judge compelling a defendant to deliver evidence to a prosecutor who asks for it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:19 pm

columbia wrote:Apparently the FLA tea party people are threatening to primary Rubio.



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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:28 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:

Governments don't have the right to require private citizens to expose their private information, period. The harder they press, especially in a fashion that is Constitutionally indefensible as the NSA's programs, the better criminals will get at shrouding their secrets.


It's not exactly as black and white as that. (Note: I make my living in this field, on the techncal side)

http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/en ... -amendment

The Fricosu case raises a thorny legal question. Does revealing a key or password to encrypted documents constitute self-incrimination? The judge in this case ruled no, stating that Ms. Fricosu's production of a password is identical to producing a document identified by the prosecutor. In the judge’s opinion, an exchange wherein the prosecution is aware of the existence of evidence and merely requests it from the defendant—rather than attempting to force the defendant to divulge the existence of evidence—is not protected under the Fifth Amendment.



Keyword here is defendant. Snooping on private citizens' activity or communication is very different than a judge compelling a defendant to deliver evidence to a prosecutor who asks for it.


Your now making a distinction between "Private Citizen" and "Defendant" that you didn't make before. "Defendants" were "Private Citizens" before the government brought charges.

If the only thing saving a "Private Citizen" from a "Defendant" is the act of that same government bringing charges, it's not much of a hurdle.

There are so many federal statutes (many in direct conflict with each other) that even the AG doesn't have rough count. (Holder admitted that to congress recently). You are sure to be in violation of at least one of them.

I'll conceed the Defendent v. Private Citizen point, but as I said, it's not much of a distinction.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:33 pm

columbia wrote:So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?

Image
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