LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:48 pm

The real story regarding programs such as PRISM, isn't necessarily the surveillance of americans, it's the method by which the executive branch insulates it's directives from judicial review. In this case, through the FISA courts which issue warrants no one can acknowledge; ergo, no one can appeal. The very words "legal" and "illegal" lose all substance and weight in this setting and are reduced to nothing more than a decree rather than the result of a representative process.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:52 pm

GaryRissling wrote:The real story regarding programs such as PRISM, isn't necessarily the surveillance of americans, it's the method by which the executive branch insulates it's directives from judicial review. In this case, through the FISA courts which issue warrants no one can acknowledge; ergo, no one can appeal. The very words "legal" and "illegal" lose all substance and weight in this setting and reduced to nothing more than a decree rather than the result of a representative process.


I agree 100% with you on this.

"Secret Courts"... the very phrase is just not something that should be embodied in the US.

I will add that I also see major issues with the fact that the government (read: Obama Administration) made these organizations promise not to go public with the "requests".
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:11 pm

Shyster wrote:
columbia wrote:So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?

Image


Even if as a mod you see them discussing plans via site chat to blow up NYC?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:13 pm

columbia wrote:
columbia wrote:Apparently the FLA tea party people are threatening to primary Rubio.





That's no surprise. He seems to be walking a tightrope on this issue. I doubt it turns out well for him.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:13 pm

Factorial wrote:
Shyster wrote:
columbia wrote:So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?

Spoiler:
Image


Even if as a mod you see them discussing plans via site chat to blow up NYC?


Really? I mean Really? Hell if I saw that, or say, child pr0n, I'd turn them in in a heartbeat. But thats not what we're talking about here.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:13 pm

Factorial wrote:
Shyster wrote:
columbia wrote:So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?

Image


Even if as a mod you see them discussing plans via site chat to blow up NYC?


That's different than the situation described by the OP. He said via PM. If someone witnesses direct talk about a terrorist attack via the chat room I think that would be a different story.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:21 pm

What if the feds asked you and you said not without a warrant?
And then read their PMs and saw said plans?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:26 pm

columbia wrote:What if the feds asked you and you said not without a warrant?
And then read their PMs and saw said plans?

Why does the timing of (refusal of) the warrant matter?

You see evidence of the planning of a crime or a crime in progress, I think you'd have an ethical, if not legal, responsibility to report it.

Having said that, if I saw a someone unloading a couple of kilos of pot from the inside of their van to their garage (in a state where it's illegal), I'd just mumble to myself and keep my mouth shut.

But again, thats a seperate discussion from the original queston.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:28 pm

I would like to know how many people supported the USA PATRIOT Act but are no outraged over this domestic surveillance program. I would also like to know if any of those good citizens have ever heard the phrases "slippery slope" and "unintended consequences".

Granted, one of the primary authors of that legislation (Jim Sensenbrenner) has said that Section 215 - which expanded the scope of the FISA courts - was written specifically to exclude so-called 'dragnet' surveillance or data mining. The interpretation of the Obama administration that data mining is its own "ongoing investigation" has been characterized as 'adventurous'.

columbia wrote:So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?

Most websites with professionally-drafted Terms of Use or Terms of Service include language stating that your personal data will not be shared with any third party.... except as may be required by law, or to enforce the terms of the agreement.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:18 pm

Factorial wrote:Even if as a mod you see them discussing plans via site chat to blow up NYC?

As others have said, whether I agree to voluntarily turn over data to the government is an entirely different matter from the government demanding to see it without a valid warrant.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:52 pm

columbia wrote:What if the feds asked you and you said not without a warrant?
And then read their PMs and saw said plans?

I could be misreading things, but I think under current U.S. law, an omission of action on the mod's part after becoming aware of criminal planning could make said mod an accessory to the terrorist conspiracy.

This harks back to an old English common law concept of "misprison of felony". It has been abolished in most of Her Highness's lands, but it's still in force in the U.S. There are separate laws covering the active concealment of your knowledge of a criminal plan (like, say, banning the terrorist users from your message board and deleting their PMs), and in the specific cases of terrorism or money laundering the passive failure to affirmatively disclose your knowledge to the coppers.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:19 pm

tifosi77 wrote:This harks back to an old English common law concept of "misprison of felony". It has been abolished in most of Her Highness's lands, but it's still in force in the U.S. There are separate laws covering the active concealment of your knowledge of a criminal plan (like, say, banning the terrorist users from your message board and deleting their PMs), and in the specific cases of terrorism or money laundering the passive failure to affirmatively disclose your knowledge to the coppers.

Misprison of felony includes as an element “affirmative steps to conceal the crime of the principal,” so it would require an active concealment like the example you provide. A failure to report a crime without any accompanying concealment is not illegal.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:35 pm

Generally, no. But i thought federal law carved out acts of terror and lowered the standard to simply failing to report. No? Or is that in other jurisdictions? My bad if I'm sharing inaccurate info.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby doublem on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:41 pm

columbia wrote:CAVEAT: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE US GOVERNMENT BY POSING THIS HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.

Suppose a group of would be terrorists needs a secure communication channel and they decide to all register for accounts on a gardening message board.
At that point, they use the PM system to communicate.

At some point, the feds - who are tracking their traffic - notice this commonality.
Being resourceful people, they deduce what is happening.

So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?


don't give it to them.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:47 pm

doublem wrote:
columbia wrote:CAVEAT: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE US GOVERNMENT BY POSING THIS HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.

Suppose a group of would be terrorists needs a secure communication channel and they decide to all register for accounts on a gardening message board.
At that point, they use the PM system to communicate.

At some point, the feds - who are tracking their traffic - notice this commonality.
Being resourceful people, they deduce what is happening.

So if you run the message board and the feds come knocking and asking for access to their communications (without a warrant)......what do you do?


don't give it to them.

2xM - So, while I agree with you, often times a failure to cooperate makes you a target as well. For a little guy that can be quite intimidating.

I'm wondering if Verizon just decided it was an ROI decision. Strictly financial. That it was cheaper to cooperate than to resist. After all how many of us are Verizon subscribers and never even considered selecting a new provider over this (EPP raises hand)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Trip McNeely on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:50 am

I know this isn't the right place to talk about fighter jets, but considering we've talked at length regarding the F-35, what does everyone (particularly tif) think of Russia's new Sukhoi SU-35 fighter? It debuted at the Paris Air Show and seems to be very competitive with the F-22 and is about one third of the price
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:48 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:

Governments don't have the right to require private citizens to expose their private information, period. The harder they press, especially in a fashion that is Constitutionally indefensible as the NSA's programs, the better criminals will get at shrouding their secrets.


It's not exactly as black and white as that. (Note: I make my living in this field, on the techncal side)

http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/en ... -amendment

The Fricosu case raises a thorny legal question. Does revealing a key or password to encrypted documents constitute self-incrimination? The judge in this case ruled no, stating that Ms. Fricosu's production of a password is identical to producing a document identified by the prosecutor. In the judge’s opinion, an exchange wherein the prosecution is aware of the existence of evidence and merely requests it from the defendant—rather than attempting to force the defendant to divulge the existence of evidence—is not protected under the Fifth Amendment.



Keyword here is defendant. Snooping on private citizens' activity or communication is very different than a judge compelling a defendant to deliver evidence to a prosecutor who asks for it.


Your now making a distinction between "Private Citizen" and "Defendant" that you didn't make before. "Defendants" were "Private Citizens" before the government brought charges.

If the only thing saving a "Private Citizen" from a "Defendant" is the act of that same government bringing charges, it's not much of a hurdle.

There are so many federal statutes (many in direct conflict with each other) that even the AG doesn't have rough count. (Holder admitted that to congress recently). You are sure to be in violation of at least one of them.

I'll conceed the Defendent v. Private Citizen point, but as I said, it's not much of a distinction.


It is a hurdle... its THE hurdle! The difference between someone suspected of a crime and someone who has no idea they are suspected of a crime is a significant difference. Its the difference between probable cause and illegal search. The difference between subject of investigation and defendant is enough evidence to charge. Collecting evidence on everyone to see who should be charged is a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

The opinion that the only difference between being charged or not is finding the right law to prosecute individuals for what they're doing is alarming. The fact that you said you work the on 'the technical side' is downright scary....
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:17 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:

Governments don't have the right to require private citizens to expose their private information, period. The harder they press, especially in a fashion that is Constitutionally indefensible as the NSA's programs, the better criminals will get at shrouding their secrets.


It's not exactly as black and white as that. (Note: I make my living in this field, on the techncal side)

http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/en ... -amendment

The Fricosu case raises a thorny legal question. Does revealing a key or password to encrypted documents constitute self-incrimination? The judge in this case ruled no, stating that Ms. Fricosu's production of a password is identical to producing a document identified by the prosecutor. In the judge’s opinion, an exchange wherein the prosecution is aware of the existence of evidence and merely requests it from the defendant—rather than attempting to force the defendant to divulge the existence of evidence—is not protected under the Fifth Amendment.



Keyword here is defendant. Snooping on private citizens' activity or communication is very different than a judge compelling a defendant to deliver evidence to a prosecutor who asks for it.


Your now making a distinction between "Private Citizen" and "Defendant" that you didn't make before. "Defendants" were "Private Citizens" before the government brought charges.

If the only thing saving a "Private Citizen" from a "Defendant" is the act of that same government bringing charges, it's not much of a hurdle.

There are so many federal statutes (many in direct conflict with each other) that even the AG doesn't have rough count. (Holder admitted that to congress recently). You are sure to be in violation of at least one of them.

I'll conceed the Defendent v. Private Citizen point, but as I said, it's not much of a distinction.


It is a hurdle... its THE hurdle! The difference between someone suspected of a crime and someone who has no idea they are suspected of a crime is a significant difference. Its the difference between probable cause and illegal search. The difference between subject of investigation and defendant is enough evidence to charge. Collecting evidence on everyone to see who should be charged is a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

The opinion that the only difference between being charged or not is finding the right law to prosecute individuals for what they're doing is alarming. The fact that you said you work the on 'the technical side' is downright scary....

I think you're misunderstanding my position.

I'm as staunch an advocate for individual privacy as can be. I'm deathly afraid of the government overstepping their bounds. I don't disagree with you at all. My point is that the government *is* currently violating the intent of the 5th ammendment.

It's very scary, especially when I know a ton about how they're doing it.

So, my job is to "light up" corporate networks, to make it so that the Infrastructure Operations team can see *everything* that's going on "on the wire". Since the enterprise owns all of the equipment in a corporate network, they have the right to monitor that data. (I'm not talking carrier or service provider here).

Not so for the government and your personal data. But if they want to, the capability certainly exists.

There are a number of really cool methods that I teach the Infrastructure teams to use with respect to finding nefarious activity usng the "Meta Data" and then to "Drill Down" into that data and see the actual activity on a packet by packet basis. Even historical data.

It's down right scary to think that the Goverment could be collating this data on individuals through Prism and using those same (and probably even better) processes.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:50 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Your now making a distinction between "Private Citizen" and "Defendant" that you didn't make before. "Defendants" were "Private Citizens" before the government brought charges.

If the only thing saving a "Private Citizen" from a "Defendant" is the act of that same government bringing charges, it's not much of a hurdle.

There are so many federal statutes (many in direct conflict with each other) that even the AG doesn't have rough count. (Holder admitted that to congress recently). You are sure to be in violation of at least one of them.

I'll conceed the Defendent v. Private Citizen point, but as I said, it's not much of a distinction.


It is a hurdle... its THE hurdle! The difference between someone suspected of a crime and someone who has no idea they are suspected of a crime is a significant difference. Its the difference between probable cause and illegal search. The difference between subject of investigation and defendant is enough evidence to charge. Collecting evidence on everyone to see who should be charged is a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

The opinion that the only difference between being charged or not is finding the right law to prosecute individuals for what they're doing is alarming. The fact that you said you work the on 'the technical side' is downright scary....

I think you're misunderstanding my position.

I'm as staunch an advocate for individual privacy as can be. I'm deathly afraid of the government overstepping their bounds. I don't disagree with you at all. My point is that the government *is* currently violating the intent of the 5th ammendment.

It's very scary, especially when I know a ton about how they're doing it.

So, my job is to "light up" corporate networks, to make it so that the Infrastructure Operations team can see *everything* that's going on "on the wire". Since the enterprise owns all of the equipment in a corporate network, they have the right to monitor that data. (I'm not talking carrier or service provider here).

Not so for the government and your personal data. But if they want to, the capability certainly exists.

There are a number of really cool methods that I teach the Infrastructure teams to use with respect to finding nefarious activity usng the "Meta Data" and then to "Drill Down" into that data and see the actual activity on a packet by packet basis. Even historical data.

It's down right scary to think that the Goverment could be collating this data on individuals through Prism and using those same (and probably even better) processes.


Sorry if I got a little personal there... not directed at you as individual, but there are plenty of people that would use a position of yours against an enemy, or worse seek to act as mercenary as a result of skill and access.

I manage mountains of data that belongs to my customers and cannot be used for anything other than its intended purpose. As a result of my access, I'm on the trade watch list that we deliver to the SEC with our quarterly filings. Its not because I am dumb enough to steal data, or worse, smart enough to mine the data appropriately to do anything valuable with it at a macro level. That said, I can't 'unsee' what I have seen, and at a micro level I can fairly reliably anticipate market corrections in my customers share prices. I routinely own my customers' publicly traded shares because I believe their choice to invest in my business leads them to a better business result, but would never trade on the basis of what I know about their business whether I was reported as an insider or not. I can't say the same for everyone I know to be on the list, and the gain is only marginal, at best. I can only imagine the effect of personal power when the wrong people have unlimited access, let alone the skills to misuse for personal gain.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:09 pm

This is an opinion piece so keep that in mind.

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/06/more-dhs-insider-from-dc-2667592.html

“Unless there are enough people who wake up fast enough, we will become involved in a war in Syria, with boots on the ground, facing not only Syrian troops but Russian forces. There will be blowback here in the United States. Along with this, you will see the U.S. dollar ‘collapse’ as the reserve currency, and social uprisings here in the U.S. over both. It will be DHS teamed with other federal agencies who will meet, with force, the uprisings. There will be chaos here, but it is expected to be different depending upon where you are at. Big cities will have the most problems, and plans are being made to cordon off cities and restrict travel at the time when these uprisings start. I really didn’t want to use this phrase, but expect martial law to be used ‘for the security’ of those affected by the turmoil.”


“It’s already begun. You’re seeing it now. If you want to know a date when our money will tank, or when the war goes hot, or when you won’t be able to get food or gas, I can’t tell you, and I don’t think anyone can. But remember what I said before, about the metals taking a hit and something happening after that. Look at the metals market. The U.S. has very little gold. Everything you see is being manipulated, from the economy to the metals to foreign policy. I believe that most politicians know how dire things are, and most are clawing their way for a seat at the global table. But if I had to answer you, and I guess I will so you’ll let me leave, I’d look for something to happen in early July as a precursor to the more major events later in the summer or fall, maybe in October.”

“But don’t try to look at dates for answers, look at events, even the small ones. Remember, their objectives haven’t changed, only their plans to adapt to the right conditions. To the unaware, it will look like everything was just one big unfortunate coincidence.”


I agree with this man. At worst it's an "I told you so". At best I am wrong.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Trip McNeely wrote:I know this isn't the right place to talk about fighter jets, but considering we've talked at length regarding the F-35, what does everyone (particularly tif) think of Russia's new Sukhoi SU-35 fighter? It debuted at the Paris Air Show and seems to be very competitive with the F-22 and is about one third of the price

8-)

Spoiler:
The Su-35 is exactly the type of aircraft I wish the U.S. was fielding more of instead of the F-35 Pigf**ker. The only real downsides are it's got some sketchy avionics and sensors and the thing is almost comically large. It's actually significantly bigger than an F-22, which itself is massive.... but the Raptor carries all its weapons in internal bays, so that size is warranted. The Flanker is just..... a big airplane.

The new Flanker derivatives are sort of a bridge between the 4th generation/"teen series" Western jets that were designed and developed in the 1970s, and the hyper-expensive 5th generation machines that incorporate stealth. Some European designs are akin to this; look up the Eurofighter Typhoon and the French Rafale and the Swedish Gripen. They incorporate a lot of 5th gen sensor and avionics tech with the maneuverability that comes with static instability and digital flight controls, and eschew all but the most cursory touches of stealth. The only thing in the U.S. arsenal that sorta fits this bill are the newest variants of the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet and the F-15SE Silent Eagle (which is a still-in-development version of the venerable Strike Eagle).

In terms of performance, the Su-35 is probably a good bit more maneuverable than the F-22. It has 3D thrust vectoring versus the Raptor's 2D system (which is a nod to the Raptor's stealth design). Plus it's airframe is optimized for turnin' and burnin', whereas the Raptor achieves its supermaneuverability almost in spite of its stealth-optimized shape. Watch this video from Paris..... the corkscrew flip thingy at 2:02 is something called a loaded roll, where the aircraft is translating in all three axes - pitch, roll, yaw - simultaneously. Now, plenty of aircraft can do this.... but not nearly in that tight of a window, nor with that kind of energy bleed; thanks to that 3D thrust vectoring and HUGE wing, the jet's forward airspeed effectively drops to zero within perhaps 4-5 plane lengths. That's eye-watering performance.

But what really makes the Flanker a threat is the helmet-mounted sight, which allows a pilot to take full advantage of the way the jet can point its nose almost anywhere seemingly at whim and fire a missile without actually having to have the target well in front. It affords something like 60-degrees angle off point-and-shoot capability; basically, if the pilot can point his face at an enemy jet without turning around, he can designate it and shoot at it and the missile will track.

All that said, with the ability to field anything close to equal numbers I'd rather go into a fight in the seat of an F-22. It has so many sensor advantages that give the pilot unmatched situational awareness, and (for the time being) the added survivability of stealth that I believe it's still the fighter of the day. But as soon as someone figures out a way to track the aircraft - and that day will come, I promise you - the Raptor's utility will be severely diminished.

I'm currently scouring the Google box for backup on this, but I believe pilots from the Indian Air Force flying Su-30MK (a slightly older export variant) are the only people to have ever scored multiple 'kills' on Raptors in simulated dogfighting that were within the rule of engagement (ROE) There was an incident a few years ago where a Navy F/A-18F pilot scored a kill on a Raptor, but he violated like 8 ROE to get in position and had the gun sight on the jet for all of 2 frames on the gun camera footage. So that one doesn't count. I don't think an F-22 has ever been 'shot down' at Red Flag, despite sometimes facing ROE that put them at a severe disadvantage. I got to meet and speak with the F-22 demo pilot a couple years ago and asked him about training. He said it was really frustrating because none of the F-15 drivers at his home base (Langley) or the F/A-18 crowd down the way at Oceana would ever agree to fight the Raptors without a 5:1 or 6:1 numerical advantage. And after about a year, they got so tired of constantly losing and being nothing more than cannon fodder that they just up and quit coming out to play at all. So the only time Raptor pilots get to do dissimilar air combat training (DACT) is when a foreign service sends jets over for a joint thing like Red Flag, or the aforementioned Indian exercise.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:18 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:This is an opinion piece so keep that in mind.

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/06/more-dhs-insider-from-dc-2667592.html

“Unless there are enough people who wake up fast enough, we will become involved in a war in Syria, with boots on the ground, facing not only Syrian troops but Russian forces. There will be blowback here in the United States. Along with this, you will see the U.S. dollar ‘collapse’ as the reserve currency, and social uprisings here in the U.S. over both. It will be DHS teamed with other federal agencies who will meet, with force, the uprisings. There will be chaos here, but it is expected to be different depending upon where you are at. Big cities will have the most problems, and plans are being made to cordon off cities and restrict travel at the time when these uprisings start. I really didn’t want to use this phrase, but expect martial law to be used ‘for the security’ of those affected by the turmoil.”


“It’s already begun. You’re seeing it now. If you want to know a date when our money will tank, or when the war goes hot, or when you won’t be able to get food or gas, I can’t tell you, and I don’t think anyone can. But remember what I said before, about the metals taking a hit and something happening after that. Look at the metals market. The U.S. has very little gold. Everything you see is being manipulated, from the economy to the metals to foreign policy. I believe that most politicians know how dire things are, and most are clawing their way for a seat at the global table. But if I had to answer you, and I guess I will so you’ll let me leave, I’d look for something to happen in early July as a precursor to the more major events later in the summer or fall, maybe in October.”

“But don’t try to look at dates for answers, look at events, even the small ones. Remember, their objectives haven’t changed, only their plans to adapt to the right conditions. To the unaware, it will look like everything was just one big unfortunate coincidence.”


I agree with this man. At worst it's an "I told you so". At best I am wrong.

Is that Giorgio Tsoukalos writing about the Mayan calendar?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:21 pm

I heard one of those silver ads on Limbaugh's show the other day. Tbey wanted to sell you the secret for redeeming paper dollars for silver coins at a bank.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:44 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:This is an opinion piece so keep that in mind.

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/06/more-dhs-insider-from-dc-2667592.html

“Unless there are enough people who wake up fast enough, we will become involved in a war in Syria, with boots on the ground, facing not only Syrian troops but Russian forces. There will be blowback here in the United States. Along with this, you will see the U.S. dollar ‘collapse’ as the reserve currency, and social uprisings here in the U.S. over both. It will be DHS teamed with other federal agencies who will meet, with force, the uprisings. There will be chaos here, but it is expected to be different depending upon where you are at. Big cities will have the most problems, and plans are being made to cordon off cities and restrict travel at the time when these uprisings start. I really didn’t want to use this phrase, but expect martial law to be used ‘for the security’ of those affected by the turmoil.”


“It’s already begun. You’re seeing it now. If you want to know a date when our money will tank, or when the war goes hot, or when you won’t be able to get food or gas, I can’t tell you, and I don’t think anyone can. But remember what I said before, about the metals taking a hit and something happening after that. Look at the metals market. The U.S. has very little gold. Everything you see is being manipulated, from the economy to the metals to foreign policy. I believe that most politicians know how dire things are, and most are clawing their way for a seat at the global table. But if I had to answer you, and I guess I will so you’ll let me leave, I’d look for something to happen in early July as a precursor to the more major events later in the summer or fall, maybe in October.”

“But don’t try to look at dates for answers, look at events, even the small ones. Remember, their objectives haven’t changed, only their plans to adapt to the right conditions. To the unaware, it will look like everything was just one big unfortunate coincidence.”


I agree with this man. At worst it's an "I told you so". At best I am wrong.

Is that Giorgio Tsoukalos writing about the Mayan calendar?


Like I said, at best I am wrong.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:58 pm

Well, The comments about syria and possibly looking across the lines and seeing the Russian military aren't all that far fetched in my mind.

(And to think, I once thought McCain would make a good president)
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