LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:44 pm

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics ... led/67287/

But Inglis' statement was new. Analysts look "two or three hops" from terror suspects when evaluating terror activity, Inglis revealed. Previously, the limit of how surveillance was extended had been described as two hops. This meant that if the NSA were following a phone metadata or web trail from a terror suspect, it could also look at the calls from the people that suspect has spoken with—one hop. And then, the calls that second person had also spoken with—two hops. Terror suspect to person two to person three. Two hops. And now: A third hop.

For a sense of scale, researchers at the University of Milan found in 2011 that everyone on the Internet was, on average, 4.74 steps away from anyone else. The NSA explores relationships up to three of those steps. (See our conversation with the ACLU's Alex Abdo on this.)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:50 pm

GaryRissling wrote:
Factorial wrote:
Grunthy wrote:Oh good another agency that adds no value and does absolutely nothing!

I'm all ears. Please explain.

You are right, of course. The FDA works hard to protect the market share of Monsanto and Big Agriculture. The SEC works hard to protect the market share of Goldman Sachs and Big Banks, the EPA works hard to protect the market share of Big Energy and Big Agriculture, etc, etc. If you look at the the heads of nearly all regulatory bodies, they are typically former employees of a company they are now regulating; and many go back to become executives at those companies (or lobbyists for the benefit of those companies) after their public sector time is up.

:thumb: Indeed. There's a term for it: Regulatory Capture.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:00 pm

NYT May front page, FYI.

Image
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:02 pm

From the publication that deep throated every WMD-in-Iraq idea.
And I'm not talking Nixon. :wink:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:06 pm

I think the general sense of unease re the Rolling Stone cover is that the story blurb sort of paints Sarnaev out to be a victim in his own way, not so much that there's a photo of him on the cover.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:16 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I think the general sense of unease re the Rolling Stone cover is that the story blurb sort of paints Sarnaev out to be a victim in his own way, not so much that there's a photo of him on the cover.


Is it? I've just only glanced at this story, and I got the impression that it was "glorification" that was the big issue.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:22 pm

Some may infer that RS is trying to make him into a sympathetic character. Whether you call that glorification or painting him as a victim, it's essentially the same thing; a justification for 'outrage'.

(I personally don't see it that way, that's just how I'm interpreting things.)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:36 pm

Shyster wrote:
GaryRissling wrote:
Factorial wrote:
Grunthy wrote:Oh good another agency that adds no value and does absolutely nothing!

I'm all ears. Please explain.

You are right, of course. The FDA works hard to protect the market share of Monsanto and Big Agriculture. The SEC works hard to protect the market share of Goldman Sachs and Big Banks, the EPA works hard to protect the market share of Big Energy and Big Agriculture, etc, etc. If you look at the the heads of nearly all regulatory bodies, they are typically former employees of a company they are now regulating; and many go back to become executives at those companies (or lobbyists for the benefit of those companies) after their public sector time is up.

:thumb: Indeed. There's a term for it: Regulatory Capture.


That link makes for some depressing reading.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:40 pm

**** tsarnaev. he lost his ability to be painted as anything but a terrorist who should be executed imo.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:42 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Some may infer that RS is trying to make him into a sympathetic character. Whether you call that glorification or painting him as a victim, it's essentially the same thing; a justification for 'outrage'.

(I personally don't see it that way, that's just how I'm interpreting things.)


oh, I have no idea then. I thought it was the image and not the blurb that caused the unease. I thought the blurb was rather innocuous as it seems to link Tsarnev's violence to family issues, which seems pretty conventional.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Bioshock on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:09 am

Anyone who thinks the Rolling Stone article glorifies Tsarnaev in any way is way off base. It was one of the most damning articles about someone who can look and be so harmless, and through a series of events, become a delusional brainwashed killer.

That is why the cover is the way it is. It's meant to make him look like an american teen. It's a microcosm of the whole article. You know, as the saying goes, don't judge a book by it's cover.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:25 am

Bioshock wrote:Anyone who thinks the Rolling Stone article glorifies Tsarnaev in any way is way off base. It was one of the most damning articles about someone who can look and be so harmless, and through a series of events, become a delusional brainwashed killer.

That is why the cover is the way it is. It's meant to make him look like an american teen. It's a microcosm of the whole article. You know, as the saying goes, don't judge a book by it's cover.


:thumb:

Maybe instead of people getting their knickers in a twist over za terrorist being on the cover; they should instead try to understand what would convert a seemingly typical immigrant teen into a cold blooded killer. Read the effin article before you set off your faux outrage meter. Its actually very insightful.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:54 am

What they said.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:00 am

I should make clear, I was never outraged. I merely pointed out that while Rolling Stone used to be the premier pop culture magazine in the world, it has turned into a crapfest over the last 10-15 years. I'm sure the Tsarnaev article is legit, but the cover was designed to get them badly needed publicity, because no one really cares about their magazine anymore.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:07 am

shafnutz05 wrote:no one really cares about any magazines anymore.


fify
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:11 am

Hockeynut! wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:no one really cares about any magazines anymore.


fify


True, but they still have a niche for me. I get Golf Digest and Game Informer, which are great for sitting out on the patio and reading (granted, I haven't done this in a month since it has been 100 degrees every day). Kind of the same reason I still go to the library and get paper books.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:13 am

The cover is all about sales, no doubt. Shocker. I personally think the cover is very clever, because at first glance there's nothing special about it. I didn't recognize Tsarnaev and thought it was just some rock star, and a pretty handsome rock star at that. He looks like Ed Droste's younger brother.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:36 am

The systemic issue that spawned the NSA data collection problem is the same issue that makes targeted killing campaigns so repugnant. It's the insulation from oversight and constitutional restrictions on power that is the deplorable legacy of the past two admins.

After Anwar was put on the government’s list, but before he was killed, the American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights represented me in a lawsuit challenging the government’s claim that it could kill anyone it deemed an enemy of the state.

The court dismissed the case, saying that I did not have standing to sue on my son’s behalf and that the government’s targeted killing program was outside the court’s jurisdiction anyway.

After the deaths of Abdulrahman and Anwar, I filed another lawsuit, seeking answers and accountability. The government has argued once again that its targeted killing program is beyond the reach of the courts. I find it hard to believe that this can be legal in a constitutional democracy based on a system of checks and balances.

The government has killed a 16-year-old American boy. Shouldn’t it at least have to explain why?


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opini ... inion&_r=0
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:50 am

I'm assuming that's due to DUI?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby AlexPKeaton on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:50 am

shafnutz05 wrote:I should make clear, I was never outraged. I merely pointed out that while Rolling Stone used to be the premier pop culture magazine in the world, it has turned into a crapfest over the last 10-15 years. I'm sure the Tsarnaev article is legit, but the cover was designed to get them badly needed publicity, because no one really cares about their magazine anymore.


Rolling Stone does some super good journalism these days.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby AlexPKeaton on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:52 am

GaryRissling wrote:The systemic issue that spawned the NSA data collection problem is the same issue that makes targeted killing campaigns so repugnant. It's the insulation from oversight and constitutional restrictions on power that is the deplorable legacy of the past two admins.

After Anwar was put on the government’s list, but before he was killed, the American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights represented me in a lawsuit challenging the government’s claim that it could kill anyone it deemed an enemy of the state.

The court dismissed the case, saying that I did not have standing to sue on my son’s behalf and that the government’s targeted killing program was outside the court’s jurisdiction anyway.

After the deaths of Abdulrahman and Anwar, I filed another lawsuit, seeking answers and accountability. The government has argued once again that its targeted killing program is beyond the reach of the courts. I find it hard to believe that this can be legal in a constitutional democracy based on a system of checks and balances.

The government has killed a 16-year-old American boy. Shouldn’t it at least have to explain why?


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opini ... inion&_r=0


Her fatal mistake is assuming that we live in a Constitutional Democracy.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:57 am

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/17/jimmy ... democracy/

Former president Jimmy Carter condemned the effect U.S. intelligence programs had on U.S. moral authority in the wake of NSA revelations brought to light by leaker Edward Snowden, Der Spiegel reports.

“America has no functioning democracy,” Carter said at a meeting of The Atlantic Bridge in Atlanta, Georgia on Tuesday.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/17/jimmy ... z2ZPBI2frk
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:00 am

What he's most proud of, though, is that he didn't fire a single shot. Didn't kill a single person. Didn't lead his country into a war – legal or illegal. "We kept our country at peace. We never went to war. We never dropped a bomb. We never fired a bullet. But still we achieved our international goals. We brought peace to other people, including Egypt and Israel. We normalised relations with China, which had been non-existent for 30-something years. We brought peace between US and most of the countries in Latin America because of the Panama Canal Treaty. We formed a working relationship with the Soviet Union."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/se ... -interview
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:00 am

This isn't a statement on our own government, but can someone explain to me what credibility Carter has on this issue? Three years ago, he was schmoozing the Castro brothers in Cuba. He had a man crush on Hugo Chavez. He has gotten cozy with several authoritarian-style leaders over the past 35 years....I'm assuming because these countries are "enemies of America" it gives him more credibility to turn around and talk about how evil our own government is?

Meh.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:01 am

See above.
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