LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:36 am

shafnutz05 wrote:This isn't a statement on our own government, but can someone explain to me what credibility Carter has on this issue? Three years ago, he was schmoozing the Castro brothers in Cuba. He had a man crush on Hugo Chavez. He has gotten cozy with several authoritarian-style leaders over the past 35 years....I'm assuming because these countries are "enemies of America" it gives him more credibility to turn around and talk about how evil our own government is?

Meh.


IMO, he as about the same credibility to speak on national security matters than any other living ex- or sitting president. Definitely more than Bush or Obama.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:54 am

I mean really, what's worse; cozying up to Chavez or the Saudi royal family a la the Bush's?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:01 am

GaryRissling wrote:I mean really, what's worse; cozying up to Chavez or the Saudi royal family a la the Bush's?


I guess my point is, none of them have much credibility.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:09 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
GaryRissling wrote:I mean really, what's worse; cozying up to Chavez or the Saudi royal family a la the Bush's?


I guess my point is, none of them have much credibility.


And that's a very fair point that I don't take any issue with. I just think it's worth noting when a former head of state opposes the establishment narrative.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:18 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
PIMCO ‏@PIMCO
Gross: #Bernanke from Mars: “Wall Street hasn’t benefited more than Main Street.”


Sheesh... Government is telling you loud and clear that everything is fine... Laughable that anyone thinks that individuals in the Federal government has any sense of reality or people's interest in mind whatsoever.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:04 pm

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:17 pm

There are idiots on twitter. This is news?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:18 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:There are idiots on twitter. This is news?


Which is why you posted that video last week, about people supporting Obama overturning the Bill of Rights? :pop: :wink:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:26 pm

columbia wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:There are idiots on twitter. This is news?


Which is why you posted that video last week, about people supporting Obama overturning the Bill of Rights? :pop: :wink:


People signing a bill about overturning the bill of rights is a bit different than jagoffs on twitter thinking Marc Anthony isn't American.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:33 pm

There are idiots everywhere. Some were in your video. Some were on Twitter. I'm simply sharing their idiocy. :)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:36 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:There are idiots everywhere. Some were in your video. Some were on Twitter. I'm simply sharing their idiocy. :)


:fist:

This is the thread for that...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:39 pm

:lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:There are idiots everywhere. Some were in your video. Some were on Twitter. I'm simply sharing their idiocy. :)


:fist:

This is the thread for that...


Well, you would certainly know. :fist:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:51 pm

..I know you are but what am I?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby eddysnake on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:02 pm

frightening stuff

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html

I LEARNED that my 16-year-old grandson, Abdulrahman — a United States citizen — had been killed by an American drone strike from news reports the morning after he died.

The missile killed him, his teenage cousin and at least five other civilians on Oct. 14, 2011, while the boys were eating dinner at an open-air restaurant in southern Yemen.

Nearly two years later, I still have no answers. The United States government has refused to explain why Abdulrahman was killed. It was not until May of this year that the Obama administration, in a supposed effort to be more transparent, publicly acknowledged what the world already knew — that it was responsible for his death.

The attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., said only that Abdulrahman was not “specifically targeted,” raising more questions than he answered.


some of the comments are pretty interesting:

Initially, I was horrified to read this, but then I did some research. As it turns out, there is more to this story than the author says here.

The son of the author (and father of the boy) was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen living in Yemen who was known as the "bin Laden of the Internet" and author of such works as "44 ways to Support Jihad" and "Allah is Preparing Us for Victory". Basically this man dedicated his life to recruiting terrorists (particularly English-speaking ones) and the destruction of America.

The boy was there in Yemen with his father, and at the time of the attack was sitting in a cafe with an Al Qaeda leader named Ibrahim al-Banna, who was the actual target. So, while it is true that the boy is not known to have committed any act of terrorism, the circumstances should definitely raise a few eyebrows.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 pm

eddysnake wrote:frightening stuff

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html

I LEARNED that my 16-year-old grandson, Abdulrahman — a United States citizen — had been killed by an American drone strike from news reports the morning after he died.

The missile killed him, his teenage cousin and at least five other civilians on Oct. 14, 2011, while the boys were eating dinner at an open-air restaurant in southern Yemen.

Nearly two years later, I still have no answers. The United States government has refused to explain why Abdulrahman was killed. It was not until May of this year that the Obama administration, in a supposed effort to be more transparent, publicly acknowledged what the world already knew — that it was responsible for his death.

The attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., said only that Abdulrahman was not “specifically targeted,” raising more questions than he answered.


some of the comments are pretty interesting:

Initially, I was horrified to read this, but then I did some research. As it turns out, there is more to this story than the author says here.

The son of the author (and father of the boy) was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen living in Yemen who was known as the "bin Laden of the Internet" and author of such works as "44 ways to Support Jihad" and "Allah is Preparing Us for Victory". Basically this man dedicated his life to recruiting terrorists (particularly English-speaking ones) and the destruction of America.

The boy was there in Yemen with his father, and at the time of the attack was sitting in a cafe with an Al Qaeda leader named Ibrahim al-Banna, who was the actual target. So, while it is true that the boy is not known to have committed any act of terrorism, the circumstances should definitely raise a few eyebrows.



I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned from the lives and deaths of Anwar and Abdulrahman al-Alawki. To just categorize Anwar as the "bin laden of the internet" without understanding that he was at first a national voice of moderate Islam in aftermath of 9-11 (he was even an honored guest of the state department during that time) is to take his life totally out of context. That he became a monster may be true, but it didn't really happen until we had the Yemeni government put him in solitary confinement without charge.

and as for Abdulrahman:

The first of those — presence at an al Qaeda “facility” — is closer to what the Administration has said about Abdulrahman’s death in the past, when they have claimed they were targeting Ibrahim al-Banna. Though AQAP reported that he was never at the site.

But here’s what a former Obama official told Jeremy Scahill about Abdulrahman’s killing.

A former senior official in the Obama administration told me that after Abdulrahman’s killing, the president was “surprised and upset and wanted an explanation.” The former official, who worked on the targeted killing program, said that according to intelligence and Special Operations officials, the target of the strike was al-Banna, the AQAP propagandist. “We had no idea the kid was there. We were told al-Banna was alone,” the former official told me. Once it became clear that the teenager had been killed, he added, military and intelligence officials asserted, “It was a mistake, a bad mistake.” However, John Brennan, at the time President Obama’s senior adviser on counterterrorism and homeland security, “suspected that the kid had been killed intentionally and ordered a review. I don’t know what happened with the review.”

In other words, it sounds like some in the Administration suspect that someone within the targeting chain of command may have invented the Ibrahim al-Banna presence as a way to get at Awlaki’s son. (Note, elsewhere Scahill suggested that the Awlaki family suspects a teacher may have been trying to recruit Abdulrahman to help hunt down his father, which might give those recruiters reason to want to silence him after they did kill Awlaki.)

- See more at: http://www.emptywheel.net/tag/ibrahim-a ... K2Xpz.dpuf
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:32 pm

Image
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:20 pm

columbia wrote:Image


Much easier to chastise those on food stamps than big "farma".
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:49 pm

Factorial wrote:
columbia wrote:Image


Much easier to chastise those on food stamps than big "farma".


Again, we take two wrongs and justify one of them by saying the other is worse. :face:

Both of those programs (and many many many more) are out of control.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:08 pm

In terms of the cost, one of them is far worse and it's the one that was funded.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:29 pm

Annual costs of the programs

Food stamps: $74 billion (since 2004 enrollment has doubled and cost has tripled)

Farm subsidy: $19.5 billion (proj $195 bn over ten years)

I'm not making an argument in favor of the farm subsidies. (To the extent they should exist at all they shouldn't be going to giant agri-business.) But something is seriously amiss with the food stamp program to have that kind of expansion in such a short period of time.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:30 pm

columbia wrote:In terms of the cost, one of them is far worse and it's the one that was funded.


I'm not a fan of subsidies, but at least a lot of their beneficiaries actually, you know, produce something.

(unless we are counting votes as a consumer good)

And as Tif mentioned, the Food Stamp program is seriously out of control right now.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:34 pm

Yeah....not sure what figure I was looking at.
tifosi is correct on the cost.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:36 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
columbia wrote:In terms of the cost, one of them is far worse and it's the one that was funded.


I'm not a fan of subsidies, but at least a lot of their beneficiaries actually, you know, produce something.

(unless we are counting votes as a consumer good)

And as Tif mentioned, the Food Stamp program is seriously out of control right now.


It's still not a justification for corporate welfare (although I don't believe you are saying that).
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:55 pm

For Detroit:

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