LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:34 am

yubb wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:I really think this photographer and those criticizing the image (outside of the family members) are missing the point. Rolling Stone didn't glamorize him, they were showing that this seemingly good looking, normal kid became an absolute monster after getting involved with radical Muslims. It's to show that the boogeyman isn't necessarily a dark skinned guy who "looks like" a terrorist. It's showing how radical Islam takes these people who are missing something in their lives and turns them into killers.


The cover most certainly did glamorize him.

Suppose, though, that they didn't put a "rock star" picture of him on the cover and instead just put the picture shown above or any other picture of him. That would be just as bad. Part of the problem with school shootings and these other crazy things is the notoriety and perceived fame that the criminals achieve through these acts.

Stop broadcasting names and pictures of the shooters and bombers. Stop giving the next kid a reason to think he's going to be on TV if he does something awful. I know this kid had other motivations than "fame". However, in many cases it plays a role.


...but wouldn't that be akin to an "ignore it and it will go away" approach? That's been our approach since 9/11 and it makes things much, much worse, IMO.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:39 am

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/hhs-admits-you-might-not-be-able-keep-your-doctor-under-obamacare_740093.html

It has been awesome seeing promise after promise made by the Democratic Congress and the president in 2010 about the ACA be broken or proven false. What an absolutely horrific, stinking abomination of a bill.


THE PRESIDENT: Here is a guarantee that I've made. If you have insurance that you like, then you will be able to keep that insurance. If you've got a doctor that you like, you will be able to keep your doctor. Nobody is trying to change what works in the system. We are trying to change what doesn't work in the system.


While there has been sniping back and forth between the administration and its detractors about the real-world application and implementation of Obamacare, the new Healthcare.gov website has taken some of the mystery out of the controversy. And President Obama and his administration do not fare well in this latest "reality check." Among the questions that HHS recently added to the website: "Can I keep my own doctor?":

"Depending on the plan you choose in the Marketplace, you may be able to keep your current doctor." The bottom line is that Obamacare guarantees neither. Doctors may be only available through certain networks, just as in the current system. And only plans that existed in their current form on March 23, 2010, are even eligible to be "kept." The vast majority of plans will be new, subject to a raft of new regulations, requirements, and restrictions.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:59 am



Barack Obama wrote:“We refused to throw in the towel and do nothing. We refused to let Detroit go bankrupt. We bet on American workers and American ingenuity, and three years later, that bet is paying off in a big way.” - Oct. 13, 2012


This was contrary to Mitt Romney said in 2008... quite literally billions of dollars later:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=0
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:14 pm

Yup...Romney was dead right in 2008, and I remember the firestorm it caused.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:24 pm

Ya'll do realize that there's a big difference between what's happening today and what Romney was talking about during the election campaign right?

When the election campaign referred to Detroit they were speaking of the US Auto Industry. The story today is about the city of Detroit going bankrupt. Two totally different issues. Connected in part, but very different as far as outcome and impact.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:29 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Ya'll do realize that there's a big difference between what's happening today and what Romney was talking about during the election campaign right?

When the election campaign referred to Detroit they were speaking of the US Auto Industry. The story today is about the city of Detroit going bankrupt. Two totally different issues. Connected in part, but very different as far as outcome and impact.


Of course. I'm merely looking at the parallels.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:36 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Ya'll do realize that there's a big difference between what's happening today and what Romney was talking about during the election campaign right?

When the election campaign referred to Detroit they were speaking of the US Auto Industry. The story today is about the city of Detroit going bankrupt. Two totally different issues. Connected in part, but very different as far as outcome and impact.


That's exactly the point... the bailout went to GM and the like, and they extracted the profit. Its done nothing for the city, let alone the people of the city. Quite the opposite, really, as executives continue to reap the benefits of federal benefactors.

Then again, that IS who Obama wants to pay more taxes... see where this goes? :pop:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:38 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Ya'll do realize that there's a big difference between what's happening today and what Romney was talking about during the election campaign right?

When the election campaign referred to Detroit they were speaking of the US Auto Industry. The story today is about the city of Detroit going bankrupt. Two totally different issues. Connected in part, but very different as far as outcome and impact.


Of course. I'm merely looking at the parallels.


I don't know, saying he was "dead right" is implying far more than a parallel. :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pensfan1989 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:54 pm

Looking at some of the indicators, I expect that GM will be in bankruptcy again within the next few years. They haven't really changed much from what they were doing before.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 pm

Holy crap.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/18/dubai-woman-raped-jailed-extramarital-sex/2554045/

For a rape conviction, United Arab Emirates law requires either a confession or four adult male witnesses to the attack.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:09 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/hhs-admits-you-might-not-be-able-keep-your-doctor-under-obamacare_740093.html

It has been awesome seeing promise after promise made by the Democratic Congress and the president in 2010 about the ACA be broken or proven false. What an absolutely horrific, stinking abomination of a bill.


It's a LAW not a bill.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:13 pm

"Depending on the plan you choose in the Marketplace, you may be able to keep your current doctor." The bottom line is that Obamacare guarantees neither. Doctors may be only available through certain networks, just as in the current system. And only plans that existed in their current form on March 23, 2010, are even eligible to be "kept." The vast majority of plans will be new, subject to a raft of new regulations, requirements, and restrictions.


How is this any different than when your employer changes insurance carriers or you get a new job? Not all doctors are part of all networks.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby yubb on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:17 pm

GaryRissling wrote:...but wouldn't that be akin to an "ignore it and it will go away" approach? That's been our approach since 9/11 and it makes things much, much worse, IMO.


Not putting pictures and names on the news isn't the same as ignoring the problem. We're still sending people to jail. Our culture, now, is one where fame, at any cost, is coveted. You have these reality shows where people act like demons toward each other. But they do it because they're on TV. If there were no one watching, they wouldn't act that way. I think it's similar with terrorists and criminals of this type. Again, terrorists have another beef; they're not just about the fame.

A little off-topic, but how "ignoring" the terrorst problem isn't a bad idea:
Spoiler:
I think that "ignoring" the terrorist problem would be the best idea. That is, leave the other countries of the world alone, stop provoking and antagonizing them, and they'd have less reason to bomb us. We've done nothing of the sort. We continue to flex our muscle across the world, acting like jerks toward everyone, and we wonder why other countries - our allies even - dislike Americans.

It makes me so sad every time I hear of a serviceman die or get wounded for this "cause". They spend long periods of time away from their family. When they come home, we shower them with praise that they rightly deserve. But I prefer the alternate reality where they never had to leave in the first place, never died, got disfigured or otherwise wounded, and got to stay with their families. It breaks my heart when you see a serviceman dress us as Santa Claus and surprise his kids, or show up at a hockey game at center ice and surprise his wife. Forcing our will upon others is no excuse for that to ever happen. They should have been home the entire time.

So people either believe that if we left the "terrorists" alone that they'd run rampant, or that if we didn't antagonize them that they'd have no beef with us. Of course there are shades of grey and clearly I believe the latter. Especially since some of the terrorists we're fighting now were once our allies.

I probably won't elaborate or respond any more on this topic since it's been discussed so much. And because people get really heated like I don't support the troops or something. I support the troops. I don't support war. Where's the "hippy" emoticon?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby yubb on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:19 pm

Factorial wrote:
"Depending on the plan you choose in the Marketplace, you may be able to keep your current doctor." The bottom line is that Obamacare guarantees neither. Doctors may be only available through certain networks, just as in the current system. And only plans that existed in their current form on March 23, 2010, are even eligible to be "kept." The vast majority of plans will be new, subject to a raft of new regulations, requirements, and restrictions.


How is this any different than when your employer changes insurance carriers or you get a new job? Not all doctors are part of all networks.


Because you have some freedom in the job you choose. And you can always (sometimes?) opt out of company insurance and purchase it on your own.
Last edited by yubb on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:21 pm

yubb wrote:
Factorial wrote:
"Depending on the plan you choose in the Marketplace, you may be able to keep your current doctor." The bottom line is that Obamacare guarantees neither. Doctors may be only available through certain networks, just as in the current system. And only plans that existed in their current form on March 23, 2010, are even eligible to be "kept." The vast majority of plans will be new, subject to a raft of new regulations, requirements, and restrictions.


How is this any different than when your employer changes insurance carriers or you get a new job? Not all doctors are part of all networks.


Because you have some freedom in the job you choose. And you can always opt out of company insurance and purchase it on your own.


In the current system, anyone that opts out their employer provided insurance for private insurance is a fool.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby yubb on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:25 pm

Maybe not. Many people have to contribute to their company insurance anyway. So isn't it possible that they could find something more well-suited for them at the same or better cost?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:26 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Ya'll do realize that there's a big difference between what's happening today and what Romney was talking about during the election campaign right?

When the election campaign referred to Detroit they were speaking of the US Auto Industry. The story today is about the city of Detroit going bankrupt. Two totally different issues. Connected in part, but very different as far as outcome and impact.


Thanks EPP for clearing this up for those who didn't know better.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:31 pm

yubb wrote:Maybe not. Many people have to contribute to their company insurance anyway. So isn't it possible that they could find something more well-suited for them at the same or better cost?



If you know of somewhere where equivalent insurance can be purchased privately that is less expensive that what an employer offers let me know. The whole idea is increasing the size of the pool lowers rates and a pool of 1 pays more for it. That's why the young and healthy need to be part of the pool.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:31 pm

Factorial wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Ya'll do realize that there's a big difference between what's happening today and what Romney was talking about during the election campaign right?

When the election campaign referred to Detroit they were speaking of the US Auto Industry. The story today is about the city of Detroit going bankrupt. Two totally different issues. Connected in part, but very different as far as outcome and impact.


Thanks EPP for clearing this up for those who didn't know better.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:51 pm

yubb wrote:
Factorial wrote:
"Depending on the plan you choose in the Marketplace, you may be able to keep your current doctor." The bottom line is that Obamacare guarantees neither. Doctors may be only available through certain networks, just as in the current system. And only plans that existed in their current form on March 23, 2010, are even eligible to be "kept." The vast majority of plans will be new, subject to a raft of new regulations, requirements, and restrictions.


How is this any different than when your employer changes insurance carriers or you get a new job? Not all doctors are part of all networks.


Because you have some freedom in the job you choose. And you can always (sometimes?) opt out of company insurance and purchase it on your own.


I was able to opt out of mine when I moved to my ex wife's insurance and they paid me $1000 a year (or something like that) to do so but I had to prove that I was otherwise insured. But again, there is no way you can find equivalent insurance today that would be cheaper to buy on your own.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:04 pm

pensfan1989 wrote:Looking at some of the indicators, I expect that GM will be in bankruptcy again within the next few years. They haven't really changed much from what they were doing before.


They just outpaced VW in total vehicle sales, and with Toyota still yet to report 2012 they may regain 'biggest in the world' status.

Regardless, the Fed, while satisfied on the basis of the bailout agreement, is still stuck with 160 million shares as opposed to the $6 billion they are still owed.

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:29 pm

yubb wrote:
GaryRissling wrote:...but wouldn't that be akin to an "ignore it and it will go away" approach? That's been our approach since 9/11 and it makes things much, much worse, IMO.


Not putting pictures and names on the news isn't the same as ignoring the problem. We're still sending people to jail. Our culture, now, is one where fame, at any cost, is coveted. You have these reality shows where people act like demons toward each other. But they do it because they're on TV. If there were no one watching, they wouldn't act that way. I think it's similar with terrorists and criminals of this type. Again, terrorists have another beef; they're not just about the fame.

A little off-topic, but how "ignoring" the terrorst problem isn't a bad idea:
Spoiler:
I think that "ignoring" the terrorist problem would be the best idea. That is, leave the other countries of the world alone, stop provoking and antagonizing them, and they'd have less reason to bomb us. We've done nothing of the sort. We continue to flex our muscle across the world, acting like jerks toward everyone, and we wonder why other countries - our allies even - dislike Americans.

It makes me so sad every time I hear of a serviceman die or get wounded for this "cause". They spend long periods of time away from their family. When they come home, we shower them with praise that they rightly deserve. But I prefer the alternate reality where they never had to leave in the first place, never died, got disfigured or otherwise wounded, and got to stay with their families. It breaks my heart when you see a serviceman dress us as Santa Claus and surprise his kids, or show up at a hockey game at center ice and surprise his wife. Forcing our will upon others is no excuse for that to ever happen. They should have been home the entire time.

So people either believe that if we left the "terrorists" alone that they'd run rampant, or that if we didn't antagonize them that they'd have no beef with us. Of course there are shades of grey and clearly I believe the latter. Especially since some of the terrorists we're fighting now were once our allies.

I probably won't elaborate or respond any more on this topic since it's been discussed so much. And because people get really heated like I don't support the troops or something. I support the troops. I don't support war. Where's the "hippy" emoticon?



I don't think terrorists are motivated one iota by being on the cover of any or all magazines. Some criminals, yes, but not those who's primary motivations are geopolitical.

That said, I think I agree 100% with what you've written in the spoiler, though I'd go further to argue that we don't antagonize terrorists by our actions - we create them.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:37 pm

Our moral high ground is about the size of a dime pitted on top of an endless vertical slippery slope.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... ml?hpid=z4

A former CIA operative detained in Panama this week at the request of Italian authorities over his conviction in the 2003 kidnapping of Muslim cleric in Milan was released on Friday morning and was aboard a flight to the United States, U.S. officials said.

Robert Seldon Lady’s release from Panama appeared to avert the possibility that he would be extradited to Italy, where he faces a sentence of up to nine years in prison for his role in the CIA capture of a terrorism suspect who was secretly snatched off a street in Milan and transported to Egypt.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pensfan1989 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:11 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
pensfan1989 wrote:Looking at some of the indicators, I expect that GM will be in bankruptcy again within the next few years. They haven't really changed much from what they were doing before.


They just outpaced VW in total vehicle sales, and with Toyota still yet to report 2012 they may regain 'biggest in the world' status.

Regardless, the Fed, while satisfied on the basis of the bailout agreement, is still stuck with 160 million shares as opposed to the $6 billion they are still owed.



Total vehicle sales are just one aspect of what a car company needs to be profitable. Volume =/= healthy company
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:51 pm

Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight Blog Is to Join ESPN Staff
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/busin ... .html?_r=0

#advancedstats
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