LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:26 pm

columbia wrote:Larry Summers withdraws name for Fed chair job
http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/15/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Good. He couldn't manage Harvard with screwing things up.
There's a couple of Dark Horse Candidates who look acceptable. Just Say NO to Janet Yellen.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:48 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Just Say NO to Janet Yellen.


Too slow on ending QE for you...ie too much like Uncle Ben?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:01 pm

Breaking: President to "shake his groove thing" at a Latin music party tonight at the WH.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2013/09/flotus-obama-will-shake-his-groove-thing-172752.html
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:06 pm

Good thing there wasn't a mass shooting in his current hometown today...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:54 pm

columbia wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Just Say NO to Janet Yellen.


Too slow on ending QE for you...ie too much like Uncle Ben?

It's not that simple.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:13 pm

tifosi77 wrote:If the SHTF and we aren't using paper money for things anymore, the only thing people are going to accept for their goods and services are other goods and services in return. It will be a true barter economy.

Except for the fact that humans were using gold and silver as a medium of exchange for literally thousands of years. Compared to the history of gold and silver as money, paper money is a toddler and pure fiat money is a newborn.

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:how many people own actual gold bars compared to buying GLD or some mutual fund or some fund that buys into gold futures anyway?

I take physical possession of all of the gold and silver I buy. Admittedly, I buy relatively small amounts (~$200 a month), so it doesn't take up that much space. I also just happen to have a safe in my house.

DelPen wrote:Lead will be worth more than gold in the short term if you know what I mean :wink:

I believe in owning all three of the precious metals: gold, silver, and lead. That safe isn't there just for the coins. :wink:

columbia wrote:1.) It has no internal rate of return, aka dividends or interest.

2.) There's no inflation protection, unlike say TIPS, if that's what you're after.

#1 is true. Gold is not an investment. Gold is money, and money by itself is not an investment. The attraction for gold is that unlike our paper money, it has inherent worth and will never go to zero in value. #2 is also true, to an extent. As someone who believes inflation is solely a factor of the increase in the amount of something in circulation, gold and silver are both subject to inflation via the fact that more of them is constantly being mined. But it's not a particularly significant rate; gold and silver are valuable in large part due to their scarcity. It would take something like a new find akin to the California gold rush to significantly devalue gold through inflation.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:53 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Just Say NO to Janet Yellen.


Too slow on ending QE for you...ie too much like Uncle Ben?

It's not that simple.


What's your exact objection?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:54 pm

Shyster wrote:I buy relatively small amounts (~$200 a month)


That doesn't please whomever you plan to leave your estate to. :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:57 pm

columbia wrote:
Shyster wrote:I buy relatively small amounts (~$200 a month)


That doesn't please whomever you plan to leave your estate to. :lol:

Why? are they anti-insurance?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:02 pm

2008 current value of $10,000 invested in January 1980:

Gold = $10,600
S&P 500 = $279,000
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:20 pm

Shyster wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:If the SHTF and we aren't using paper money for things anymore, the only thing people are going to accept for their goods and services are other goods and services in return. It will be a true barter economy.

Except for the fact that humans were using gold and silver as a medium of exchange for literally thousands of years. Compared to the history of gold and silver as money, paper money is a toddler and pure fiat money is a newborn.

But you're couching this in terms of commerce, which more or less still a civilized existence. I'm talking about Mad Max stuff. In that environment, the only things that will have any real value are food, water and tools. (And I guess fuel, in keeping with the Mad Max analogy) As they say, you can't eat gold. A water purification system will be far more valuable than a yellowish brick of soft metal.

There are cyclical gaps in the monetary history of the human race the world that lasted 500-600 years at a clip. During these periods, the value of precious metals evaporated nearly as quickly as the value of whatever currency existed at the time. It only regains value once a more recognizable system of trade and commerce is reestablished, and that might take centuries. (As it did after the fall of Rome, as some suggest might be happening now in rural Argentina)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:27 pm

columbia wrote:2008 current value of $10,000 invested in January 1980:

Gold = $10,600
S&P 500 = $279,000


Again... you're making a false assumption. You're assuming that the choice is binary.

No one is saying you should go 100% into gold at the expense of investing in Stocks.

BtW, you're picking of dates doesn't fool anyone who's able to read a chart.

If you haven't been listening, everyone here has agreed that Gold isn't an investment, it's an insurance policy against financial collapse.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheigh ... ation.html

What are you going to trade for food and shelter? Computer services?
In a barter economy, what if you want something but the individual seller doesn't need what you have to barter for it? That's where currency comes in. When your currency is worthless, you have zero leverage without common store of value.
tifosi77 wrote: I'm talking about Mad Max stuff.


See the PBS article above. We're far more likely to experience that scenerio than your "Mad Max" scenario.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:30 pm

So it is being reported in Lebanon that Syria moved 20 trucks worth of material and supplies for the manufacture and storage of chemical weapons to......... Iraq.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:32 pm

tifosi77 wrote:So it is being reported in Lebanon that Syria moved 20 trucks worth of material and supplies for the manufacture and storage of chemical weapons to......... Iraq.

And the banners hung from overpasses on the border read "Welcome Home WMD!"
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:43 pm

"Gun incident" near the WH.
So much for the salsa party?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:43 pm

I hear there is now proof that Assad used the chemical weapons. So bombs away, right?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:49 pm

Gaucho wrote:I hear there is now proof that Assad used the chemical weapons. So bombs away, right?

nah, not until the attacks hit this side if the Atlantic. He's the Middle Easts problem ATM.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:55 pm

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:03 pm

Meet The PR Firm That Helped Vladimir Putin Troll The Entire Country
http://www.businessinsider.com/vladimir ... z2f6FIdABa
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:12 pm

Gaucho wrote:I hear there is now proof that Assad used the chemical weapons. So bombs away, right?

The U.N. report doesn't ascribe blame, only confirms that chemical weapons were used at three locations within the last month. However, it has been pretty widely accepted for a couple weeks now that it was in fact Assad and not the rebels. Apparently there is satellite data showing the launches from behind Syrian lines, amongst other pieces of evidence.

Given what is now considered fact, I was wrong to have ever believed the rebels might have been behind it. There are just too many moving parts for it to have been the rebels; even if they had somehow overrun a stockpile and taken possession of a cache of chemical weapons, it's not like you just grab a shell and fire it off. By definition these things are highly volatile and require absurdly delicate handling; just getting them to the battlefield is difficult.

This now leaves us with what I consider to be the biggest unintended consequence of the misadventure in Iraq: the inability to act owing to an overwhelming lack of appetite for foreign engagement. Twelve years ago, by this point in time we would be six weeks into an aerial bombardment campaign..... and I do think that such a response from a motivated international coalition is appropriate for the transgression. But in 2013, with ten years of Iraq behind us, it's simply not feasible.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:22 pm

tifosi77 wrote:and I do think that such a response from a motivated international coalition is appropriate for the transgression.

It's an interesting time for international politics.

There are no "International coalitions" anymore. The rest of the word just waits for the US to take sole responsibility.

I think we need 20 years of total non-intervention. Maybe then the rest of the world will step up t their responsibilities.

Until then, Despots and Dictators will be free to do almost anything without fear of consequences.

I'm actually for the dissolution of the UN as well.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:29 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:The rest of the word just waits for the US to take sole responsibility.



What makes you think so?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:41 pm

Yeah, I don't see the current reluctance as other countries waiting for the U.S. to do something. Seems more that they don't want to get tangled up in another U.S. mess based on a speculative basis. Granted, the intel picture today is far clearer than it was last month when Parliament soundly defeated the notion of joining a U.S. attack. But I just think there's an overwhelming sense of been-there-done-that which is inhibiting action.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:41 pm

Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:The rest of the word just waits for the US to take sole responsibility.



What makes you think so?


Give me examples to the contrary.

The involvement of France in Mali aside, (and that's mo where near the scale of Syria), there's been a real lack of International action in stabilizing the worlds hotspots.

tifosi77 wrote:Yeah, I don't see the current reluctance as other countries waiting for the U.S. to do something. Seems more that they don't want to get tangled up in another U.S. mess based on a speculative basis. Granted, the intel picture today is far clearer than it was last month when Parliament soundly defeated the notion of joining a U.S. attack. But I just think there's an overwhelming sense of been-there-done-that which is inhibiting action.

They should be hesitant. No one should jump into a military action. But there are no real examples of anyone besides the US even contemplating action. Yet, mark my words, if we were to embrace "non intervention" it would only take a few years before the US would be scolded for not doing enough.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:42 pm

France supports an attack in Syria.
I think that's about it.
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