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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:00 pm

slappybrown wrote:Did he do that during live play?


Yes. It was 3-0 Stuttgart, though. Then again, Lehmann would probably do this even when the score is 1-1 and the opponent has just won the ball.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby slappybrown on Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:09 pm

Gaucho wrote:I would NEVER want de Rossi on my team. He is beyond dirty and a despisable POS. I don't mind aggression, but the guy throws elbows, is kicking and hitting you at every opportunity, and worst of all: he spits. The guy will never get a job in the EPL.

De Rossi may never play in the EPL, but it has nothing to do with his abilities. Both Arsenal and Chelsea have been rumored to be interested in recent times, and with Roma constantly facing financial problems, it wouldn't surprise me, notwithstanding the fact that he's Roman and the spiritual leader of the team with Totti in his twilight years. No question he can hack it with a top 4 English squad. If Ferguson always rued never getting Gattuso to come to OT, De Rossi should be first on his list, and De Rossi's skill and technique blows Gattuso's away.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:57 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Gaucho wrote:I would NEVER want de Rossi on my team. He is beyond dirty and a despisable POS. I don't mind aggression, but the guy throws elbows, is kicking and hitting you at every opportunity, and worst of all: he spits. The guy will never get a job in the EPL.

De Rossi may never play in the EPL, but it has nothing to do with his abilities. Both Arsenal and Chelsea have been rumored to be interested in recent times, and with Roma constantly facing financial problems, it wouldn't surprise me, notwithstanding the fact that he's Roman and the spiritual leader of the team with Totti in his twilight years. No question he can hack it with a top 4 English squad. If Ferguson always rued never getting Gattuso to come to OT, De Rossi should be first on his list, and De Rossi's skill and technique blows Gattuso's away.


I certainly do not question his abilities. I'm not sure if fans in England would be willing to put up with his antics, though - and I'm not talking about opposing fans. When Drogba arrived at Chelsea and dived the fans let him know that they do not approve of this stuff at all. I also don't think that any "real" United fan ever loved Ronaldo. Gattuso is a different player than de Rossi. He sure is a pest, but he'd never spit at an opponet. At least I hope so.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:25 pm

Gaucho wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Gaucho wrote:I would NEVER want de Rossi on my team. He is beyond dirty and a despisable POS. I don't mind aggression, but the guy throws elbows, is kicking and hitting you at every opportunity, and worst of all: he spits. The guy will never get a job in the EPL.

De Rossi may never play in the EPL, but it has nothing to do with his abilities. Both Arsenal and Chelsea have been rumored to be interested in recent times, and with Roma constantly facing financial problems, it wouldn't surprise me, notwithstanding the fact that he's Roman and the spiritual leader of the team with Totti in his twilight years. No question he can hack it with a top 4 English squad. If Ferguson always rued never getting Gattuso to come to OT, De Rossi should be first on his list, and De Rossi's skill and technique blows Gattuso's away.


I certainly do not question his abilities. I'm not sure if fans in England would be willing to put up with his antics, though - and I'm not talking about opposing fans. When Drogba arrived at Chelsea and dived the fans let him know that they do not approve of this stuff at all. I also don't think that any "real" United fan ever loved Ronaldo. Gattuso is a different player than de Rossi. He sure is a pest, but he'd never spit at an opponet. At least I hope so.


De Rossi's antics are not much worse than many EPL players. Fabregas spits at players all the time. John Terry is filth personified. He spit at Tevez in the 08 Euro Cup finals. He cheap shots guys all the time, feigns injury all the time. Ballack is another. I'm not sure if he spits, but he is always faking injuries, always taking cheap shots with elbows, kicks, ... always grabbing players in the box. Drogba hasn't cleaned up his behavior. He took it to a new low vs. United this season. He ran 10 yards to crash into an airborne vulnerable Johnny Evans and when Evans put up his leg to protect himself, Drogba writhed around on the ground as if he had a seizure. Of course he returned to play within minutes. Cashley Cole? The next player Chelsea signs that has class will be the first.

Gerrard dives all the time. Here is one of his latest:



I also disagree on Ronaldo. I consider myself a "real" United fan and I think he was outstanding. He had certain undesirable behaviors, but he came to United as a raw 17 year old and worked like a consummate professional to become the best player in the world. He showed up early to training and left late and worked as hard or harder than any British player. That is why SAF loved him so much and indulged his petulance. Despite his theatrical antics he was a true professional. The club made nearly £70 off him in 6 years. United won 3 EPL titles, 1 Euro Cup, 1 FA Cup, 2 League Cups, and 1 Club World Cup in Ronaldo's 6 years. He was a big part of all those trophies. On the whole I think his time at United was overwhelmingly positive.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:11 pm

I certainly didn't mean to say that you're not a real United fan. Sorry if I sounded that way. I also didn't mean to question Ronaldo's abilities, not at all. He was and is an outstanding player, but I'd say that most United players weren't exactly heartbroken when he was sold to Real (I'm not saying they were happy about it, though). Valencia meanwhile is not only an excellent players, he also seems to be a great guy.

Regarding spitting players, well, you're right, I had forgotten about Terry and all that. Forgive me, I sometimes get carried away when de Rossi is the topic.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:35 pm

Gaucho wrote:I certainly didn't mean to say that you're not a real United fan. Sorry if I sounded that way. I also didn't mean to question Ronaldo's abilities, not at all. He was and is an outstanding player, but I'd say that most United players weren't exactly heartbroken when he was sold to Real (I'm not saying they were happy about it, though). Valencia meanwhile is not only an excellent players, he also seems to be a great guy.

Regarding spitting players, well, you're right, I had forgotten about Terry and all that. Forgive me, I sometimes get carried away when de Rossi is the topic.


No problems. I realize Ronaldo is a polarizing figure. I also agree Valencia is doing quite well and how about Obertan the other night:



He might replace some of Ronaldo's tricks :wink:
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:59 pm

Funny that you mention Obertan. I missed Tuesday's action and yesterday a friend of mine, who is a huge ManU fan, told me a little about Obertan. Interesting player. But man, those legs are skinny.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:31 am

Drogba took a run at Evans with no chance to get there on time and win the ball. Besides a karate kick to the chest, he got a yellow card for his trouble:

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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:33 am

Draftnik wrote:Drogba took a run at Evans with no chance to get there on time and win the ball. Besides a karate kick to the chest, he got a yellow card for his trouble:



In Drogba's defense, it does appear to me that he was pulling up to avert contact with Evans before taking a foot to the chest.
I do agree though that Ashley Cole is probably the most easily despised player in the prem. I liked the direction the club was going under Renieri and the early days of Mourinho in terms of buying younger talent; but bringing in the likes of Shevhenko, Ballack, Cole, etc has been a disaster IMO, and Terry has gotten way too full of himself. I still like Lampard and Joe Cole though.

BTW, has Paul Scholes ever made a good tackle in his life? ;)



and here's a good Rooney diving montage ;)


Just saying all teams, if not all players, have their moments of incredulity.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:28 pm

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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Gaucho on Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:21 am

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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby pfim on Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:37 am



Sorenson has to be the worst keeper in the Prem.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:46 pm

Drogba pulled out of his late challenge against Evans when he saw Evans boot/studs ready to strike Drogba in the chest. The replay shows Drogba accelerate into the late challenge then turn away at the last second when Evans adopted self defensive tactics. That is why the ref carded Drogba, but I also think Evans should have seen a card as well. It was a tough position for Evans though because he can't be expected to take a violent collision in a vulnerable position without defending himself IMO.

I don't think Scholes is capable of making a good tackle. The real problem though is most of his bad tackles happen in non-threatening positions of the field, just like the video you linked. On the other hand (no pun intended), all of his handballs occur in the box. How can such an intelligent footballer be so utterly inept when the ball isn't at his feet? United really miss his orchestration (from his prime seasons) as demonstrated yesterday.

Rooney dives from time to time. He did again yesterday. SAF is trying to reprogram him. His scouse brain has bad programming from his youth training, just like Ronaldo had. The United academy would never produce a diving cheat like the Liverpool academy produced Gerrard. :wink:

So yes, Rooney and Gerrard have something in common and Aquilani has something in common with Scholes. One thing :wink: the Liverpool pair will never have in common with Rooney & Scholes is:

Image

Speaking of Aquilani, I really focused on him today. It is interesting how Rafa always bemoans United having the luxury of £20M players on the bench while he allegedly has none... but speaking of Aquilani, it was hard to determine much about him with only ~ 20 minutes on the pitch. One thing that was obvious is he cries about every tackle and thinks his opponents deserve a card for every challenge. Who does Aquilani think he is? Ronaldo? :wink:

Rafa didn't do him any favors with the comment about Blackburn being "tough." Every opponent will single out Aquilani for abuse because Rafa put a target on his back by labeling him a soft player.

I though Denilson showed promising signs today for Arsenal. He really got stuck in on a couple of his challenges and didn't back down.

I think Sorensen is pretty good for Stoke. He's saved a few penalties the past few weeks and he generally makes a lot of tough saves when I am watching. Earlier this season one of Chelsea's thugs took him out of the game and his replacement conceded a weak, late winner to Chelsea. I think Chelsea would be 2 points poorer if Sorensen weren't intentionally injured in that match. Figueroa's goal was a laser. The trajectory and pace had to be perfect from that distance to beat Sorensen and they were.

Back to my gratuitous Benitez bashing, he really is playing a dangerous game by constantly lowering expectations, shifting targets & timelines, and blaming others for results:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6953994.ece

He better hope the NOW rumors of an Asian consortium buying United for £1B+ are just rumors. The Glazers don't have a strategy to pay any of their debt IMO. Their free cashflow only covers interest payments (£50M - £60M). That doesn't include the PIK loans (~ £175M) from hedge funds that aren't even paying interest. The 14.X% interest just accumulates annually and is added on the principal. Sooner or later the Glazers will have to sell and when they do, if the buyer is liquid for the purchase United will leave all their English and European challengers in their financial dust because none of them can compete with United's Operational margins & profits.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby pfim on Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:26 pm

I don't think you can put a ton of blame on Sorenson for that goal, but he's still subpar. The Villa job was his and he blew it, he can't command his box.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:43 am

:lol:

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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby slappybrown on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:55 am

Draftnik wrote::lol:


Amazing. Simply amazing.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby GaryRissling on Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:09 am

What do you guys think of Beasely's chance of making the WC squad? team? He is probably the most remarkably inconsistent player I have ever seen for the national team, but (a) we need speed in our midfield and (b) when Beasely's in form he is one of our top players. But, man, when he's bad he's a massive liability. I remember re-watching the czech game from '06 and counting something like 14 times he lost the ball immediately after his first touch, which is inexplicable for a professional.

...but he seems to be in form at the moment:

http://videos.sapo.pt/fr3bI6TuZHzzz2kGmumk
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby pfim on Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:19 am

Why am I watching SPL highlights in a foreign language? :P

Interestingly, he seemed to be playing on the right side in that match.

I think the chances of him making the squad are pretty good if he gets regular playing time with his club. The left side of the US formation is a black hole, and since Davies won't be ready, Beasley gives them more options up front as far as playing Dempsey up there and moving Donovan to the right. Plus, while he was a complete failure as a left back, no one questions his tracking back and his ability to help whichever subpar left back Bradley eventually chooses. Donovan can do that, but that's not what they want Donovan doing.

Plus, he's a Bradley favorite (Chicago Fire).
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:27 am

Just say no to Beasley.

ABB (anybody but Beasley)

Walter Smith seems to be pumping him up though to try and keep him at Ibrox:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11788_5775910,00.html

I'd rather see some midfield defensive steel like Edu or Jones if they regain fitness in 2010.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby pfim on Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:06 pm

Beasley with another goal and an assist today, again on the right side.

Beasley will be on the team if he's in form, Jones and Edu play in the middle.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:28 pm

I realize Beasley plays wing (or fullback for some reason under Bradley) and Edu & Jones are defensive central midfielders. My comment was more about guys on the bubble of making the final 23. I think we need some athleticism and physicality in the midfield to shield the back 4 and break up play. I thought we could have used that type of player when we lost the lead to Brazil in the 2nd half of the Confed Cup. Plus I think England will play through the middle with Rooney (dropping back as he is prone to), Gerrard and Lampard. Its possible a left sided attacking US wing could exploit Glen Johnson at right back if he is still in the England starting XI, but I doubt the US will setup to be that adventurous.

Beasley has been a liability whenever I've seen him play. He was a disaster as I remember in the 09 Confed Cup and we improved markedly when he was benched. I also don't remember him doing well at the 06 WC. He also was not part of the WC qualifying matches after his suckitude at the Confed Cup if I remember correctly. I don't doubt Bradley has a man crush on him because the US Soccer setup seems to grant lifetime memberships to players until their early to mid 30s, but the guy doesn't have the bottle to play well when the pressure is on IMO.

Anything he does with Rangers has to be taken with a grain of salt IMO. A goal and an assist against Motherwell is meaningless. They are a horrible team. They are closer in points to the bottom of the SPL table than the top. They are probably equivalent to an English League One club. Rangers are horrible. They had the 3rd least points in the group stage of the Euro Cup and didn't even qualify for the losers Cup. Celtic stink too. They didn't advance beyond the group stages of the Europa loser Cup. The entire SPL blows. If Beasley puts in some decent performances vs. Celtic it might merit praise. Other than that, he (and Edu) are wasting their time at Rangers. In Beasley's case he probably isn't good enough to go anywhere better. Rangers are in severe financial trouble and Walter Smith is powerless to stop any of his players from leaving if the right £££ comes in. In Edu's case he has been injured and he is still young enough to have some upside to move onto a better club.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby pfim on Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:09 am

As inconsistent and error-prone he is, he's probably the best left-sided player they have. I think his spot comes down to him vs Robbie Rogers, and if he's playing for his club then I would expect Bradley to take the guy with 89 caps and two World Cup appearances.

I understand the SPL is junk, but it's no worse than the MLS and the Scandavian leagues where many of the NT players ply their trades. He's 27 and not many of the NT players have his experience internationally and at club level.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby GaryRissling on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:16 pm

Plus, I keep thinking of who we have that could possibly track a speedy opposition winger (like Lennon) and with all due respect, Roger's defensive work leaves much to be desired.

Another problem for the national side though is that is seems that Bocanegra is on the outs at Rennes, which means that (assuming Gooch is even fit in time), Demerit won't have an in-form partner in the center. Maybe we'll see Edu try it out again at CB in the upcoming matches, but our defense really seems thin.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby pfim on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:38 pm

I don't think Bocanegra is on the outs, I know he missed one of those matches due to yellow card accumulation. We'll see I guess, hopefully he gets in the match on Wednesday before the break. I think Edu in the center of defense is just an emergency situation, he really struggled in the air when he played there in the Olympics.

I think the centerbacks will work themselves out by June, barring any other injuries. I'm still worried about up top, hopefully Bradley sees the light and puts Dempsey up there. Altidore hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Hull either.
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Re: 2010 World Cup Draw

Postby Draftnik on Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:48 pm

When Beasley was benched after his disastrous Confed Cup game who replaced him? Rogers wasn't on the team. Also, neither Beasley nor Rogers (despite hailing from the preeminent collegiate soccer program) featured in the summer/fall WC qualifying matches if I remember correctly.

I agree Beasley will probably be on the team due to the insular nature of US Soccer, but I can't see how anybody in the room can feel comfortable with him on the pitch in a high pressure match. There has to be some kind of formation adjustment to get X competent outfield players on the pitch without the need for a left sided player that bottles it every time the ball is at his feet in a pressure match.

I see Bradley will be fielding an experimental team for winter camp and the next friendly match. Omar Gonzalez had a very good debut MLS season and could be a good reserve candidate for SA 10 so that he gets some experience for his likely ascension to starting XI by Brazil 14.
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