Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rocco on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:06 pm

Alex Rios has been traded to the Rangers for cash considerations. I'm just going to sit here and laugh for a while.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:11 pm

Is Littlefield running the white sox remotely? Is he a special advisor? How on earth does that happen unless Littlefield is involved.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rocco on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:14 pm

Troy Loney wrote:Is Littlefield running the white sox remotely? Is he a special advisor? How on earth does that happen unless Littlefield is involved.


They read Jim Bowden's articles at ESPN and thought every GM was as dumb as he is.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rylan on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:23 pm

Rocco wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Is Littlefield running the white sox remotely? Is he a special advisor? How on earth does that happen unless Littlefield is involved.


They read Jim Bowden's articles at ESPN and thought every GM was as dumb as he is.


Every article I read of his made me realize more and more why he is no longer a GM in baseball.

Trade best prospects for marginal returns.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:24 pm

However it ended up going down. I think the takeaway is that, thank heavens we are years removed from McClatchy and Littlefield running this team. Coonelly and NH have things under control.

The Pirates didn't get Rios, just have to settle for:

-Best record in Baseball
-Young cost controlled nucleus
-Payroll flexibility
-Top 5 farm system
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:41 pm

is there such a thing as a lose/lose, cause this deal has it written all over it. The Sox dump Rios and only look to be paying 1 million of his salary for a PTBNL, and the Rangers get Rios at @ 11 for next year. I'm thinking the Sox may have come out ahead in this deal, wow.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:47 pm

The Rangers were desperate for an OF, and they've saved money with the Cruz suspension. Seems like a no-brainer deal for them to do.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rylan on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:48 pm

White Sox are in full rebuild mode and are dumping all of their big contracts. Getting rid of Rios for nothing is pretty good since that is what they gave up for him. Its obvious he was no longer in their long term plans and they are content with sending him on his way.

Rangers have the ability to eat some salary and will likely try to trade Rios in the offseason. With the suspension to Nelson Cruz, the Rangers had a glaring hole in their outfield and went and got a viable replacement option. I see it as a win win move honestly.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:51 pm

Rylan wrote:White Sox are in full rebuild mode and are dumping all of their big contracts. Getting rid of Rios for nothing is pretty good since that is what they gave up for him. Its obvious he was no longer in their long term plans and they are content with sending him on his way.


They could have sent him on his way a week and a half ago and gotten something in return if they weren't asking for the likes of Jameson Taillon and Jurikson Profar.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rylan on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:54 pm

I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:57 pm

they pay practically nothing for him this year, but trading him isn't close to certain without eating a big portion of that 2014 salary, and for the production you're likely to get I'm not sure him costing you whatever he's due this year and what you have to eat to trade, or if you kept him there's a win in that
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:57 pm

Rylan wrote:I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.


That's the way I see it. If they could have gotten decent value before the deadline they would have done it. They couldn't, so they waited.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rocco on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:02 pm

Rylan wrote:I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.


They end up basically getting nothing for him other than salary relief, which they could have gotten a week ago at the deadline. I have a hard time believing they couldn't have gotten a better deal if they traded him before the deadline when there were multiple teams interested as opposed to now when they could only deal with the Rangers. They blew it.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:04 pm

MWB wrote:
Rylan wrote:I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.


That's the way I see it. If they could have gotten decent value before the deadline they would have done it. They couldn't, so they waited.



So you think that the rangers offered the exact same deal this time around, without having any other competitors? I doubt that. I'm sure the Pirates offered a better prospect to take the same salary amount.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:04 pm

they blew it at the deadline for sure, but I think having Texas taking almost all his salary isn't bad, something tells me teams were asking for them to eat a substantial portion of what was owed. I figure they might have wanted them to eat 6 or 7 mill
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:07 pm

Rocco wrote:
Rylan wrote:I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.


They end up basically getting nothing for him other than salary relief, which they could have gotten a week ago at the deadline. I have a hard time believing they couldn't have gotten a better deal if they traded him before the deadline when there were multiple teams interested as opposed to now when they could only deal with the Rangers. They blew it.


Then why do teams ever make deals after the deadline? Before the deadline, was Rios really in need? The Rangers had the Cruz situation up in the air, so they were not as desperate. There was no OF of significance that was traded at the deadline, so what makes you think that there were multiple teams fighting over Rios? If there were, someone would have made a deal elsewhere.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:09 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
MWB wrote:
Rylan wrote:I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.


That's the way I see it. If they could have gotten decent value before the deadline they would have done it. They couldn't, so they waited.



So you think that the rangers offered the exact same deal this time around, without having any other competitors? I doubt that. I'm sure the Pirates offered a better prospect to take the same salary amount.


Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying it was the same deal, I just doubt it is significantly more before. There is always risk in a situation like this, but most GM's are pretty good at reading the situations.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:10 pm

since1970 wrote:they blew it at the deadline for sure, but I think having Texas taking almost all his salary isn't bad, something tells me teams were asking for them to eat a substantial portion of what was owed. I figure they might have wanted them to eat 6 or 7 mill


Deals like this are almost always either eat the salary of give up better prospects. Texas ate the salary and didn't have to give up the prospect.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rocco on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:19 pm

MWB wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Rylan wrote:I don't think so. I think they set the bar high at the deadline knowing full well they could sell him in August. Teams didn't bite and so they worked with what they had.


They end up basically getting nothing for him other than salary relief, which they could have gotten a week ago at the deadline. I have a hard time believing they couldn't have gotten a better deal if they traded him before the deadline when there were multiple teams interested as opposed to now when they could only deal with the Rangers. They blew it.


Then why do teams ever make deals after the deadline? Before the deadline, was Rios really in need? The Rangers had the Cruz situation up in the air, so they were not as desperate. There was no OF of significance that was traded at the deadline, so what makes you think that there were multiple teams fighting over Rios? If there were, someone would have made a deal elsewhere.


Players get moved after the deadline either because a) teams fall out of the hunt after the deadline or b) teams are stupid and don't maximize the value of their players. Teams were interested in Rios and the Rangers had every reason to believe Cruz was going to get suspended. Reports were that the union and teams were informed before the deadline which players were going to get suspended.

Rios didn't get moved at the deadline because the White Sox thought teams would actually give up elite prospects like Profar for an average player. When the Rangers and other teams decided not to be insane Chicago took their ball and went home. Quite simply they are used to being buyers at the deadline and had no idea how this whole "selling players" thing works. Philly and SF did the same thing.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:24 pm

The deal they did seems like normal value for a player like Rios, before or after the deadline. What would you guys expect a reasonable return would have been before the deadline? From what I'd read, a deal for Profar would have included Peavy.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Rylan on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:27 pm

MWB wrote:The deal they did seems like normal value for a player like Rios. What would you guys expect a reasonable return would have been before the deadline? From what I'd read, a deal for Profar would have included Peavy.


See that is the thing about deals that didn't happen. There is speculation and names thrown around, but nothing concrete is ever produced. Profar has been a name I saw where the White Sox wanted him straight up for Rios, but here you are saying it included Peavy. We can never truly know what was offered at the deadline and as such I have to go on what I do know, and that is the White Sox got rid of Rios without hurting themselves.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:30 pm

Right, and teams throwing out a name like Profar doesn't mean they actually expect it, if they did put it out. It's meant to drive up the price or create more interest.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:31 pm

Obviously we aren't privy to what the negotiations were. But it's hard to believe the Rangers wouldn't have put that same deal on the table before the deadline. Say the White Sox went to NH and said, if we kick in $1M total, will you offer a prospect better than this C Grade prospect the Rangers offered? This guy wasn't even a top 20 prospect for the rangers. I'm sure Kingham or Dickerson would have been dealt straight up for Rios under the same financial terms.
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:44 pm

You could very well be right. But that's a risk the White Sox take, figuring they know what they can get from the Rangers. They could easily have gone to other teams, knowing what they had on the table from the Rangers, and no other team upped the deal. So wait a week, let him go through waivers, see if someone's situation has changed and claims him to see if a better deal can be made. If not, they knew the Rangers would take him. There are only a handful of teams above the Rangers on the waiver order, so that means 25 teams or so passed on Rios. I just don't think the demand was there. What other team would benefit from Rios?
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Re: Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

Postby MWB on Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:37 pm

There is a picture of Arod in the dictionary next to the word delusional:

"It was awesome, it was just an amazing experience," Rodriguez said Saturday morning before the Yankees hosted the Detroit Tigers in a matinee game. "The fans were incredible. Such great energy and such a great response. It was pretty overwhelming. I was having a hard time keeping my emotions in check." Rodriguez thought the fans' reaction was "so much better than I ever even dreamed of."
He added: "I just felt the love walking around the city. What people were screaming, (it was) pretty incredible. This city is, it's the greatest city in the world."
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