LGP Science Thread

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:45 am

With no time, there can be no motion.
With no time, there can also be no cause and effect.
With no motion, there can be no cause and effect.
With no cause and effect, there can be no motion.
Without motion and cause and effect our brains don't work. (if you buy that our brains and thought occur within the physical world at least)
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:45 am

You are losing me P_G.
Who is saying that there is no room for thought?
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,889
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:46 am

columbia wrote:You are losing me P_G.
Who is saying that there is no room for thought?


*raises hand*
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:46 am

Kraftster wrote:With no time, there can be no motion.
With no time, there can also be no cause and effect.
With no motion, there can be no cause and effect.
With no cause and effect, there can be no motion.
Without motion and cause and effect our brains don't work. (if you buy that our brains and thought occur within the physical world at least)


Is this the next warz clue? :pop:
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,889
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:46 am

columbia wrote:So if the mind cannot perceive everything that exists before it, should I question my atheism?

:scared:

"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted"
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:49 am

Kraftster wrote:With no time, there can be no motion.
With no time, there can also be no cause and effect.
With no motion, there can be no cause and effect.
With no cause and effect, there can be no motion.
Without motion and cause and effect our brains don't work. (if you buy that our brains and thought occur within the physical world at least)

There's motion because we perceive there to be motion. No?
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:51 am

Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:With no time, there can be no motion.
With no time, there can also be no cause and effect.
With no motion, there can be no cause and effect.
With no cause and effect, there can be no motion.
Without motion and cause and effect our brains don't work. (if you buy that our brains and thought occur within the physical world at least)

There's motion because we perceive there to be motion. No?


But how do we perceive?? (if there is no motion and its just a perception)
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 am

I have to be up in 6 hours....good night gentlemen.

Kraftster wrote:Weak.


:P
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,889
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:54 am

:lol:
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:08 am

Kraftster wrote:
Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:With no time, there can be no motion.
With no time, there can also be no cause and effect.
With no motion, there can be no cause and effect.
With no cause and effect, there can be no motion.
Without motion and cause and effect our brains don't work. (if you buy that our brains and thought occur within the physical world at least)

There's motion because we perceive there to be motion. No?


But how do we perceive?? (if there is no motion and its just a perception)

It is possible to perceive motion when the physical stimulus is not moving:

Image
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:12 am

Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:
Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:With no time, there can be no motion.
With no time, there can also be no cause and effect.
With no motion, there can be no cause and effect.
With no cause and effect, there can be no motion.
Without motion and cause and effect our brains don't work. (if you buy that our brains and thought occur within the physical world at least)

There's motion because we perceive there to be motion. No?


But how do we perceive?? (if there is no motion and its just a perception)

It is possible to perceive motion when the physical stimulus is not moving:

Image


You're focusing on what's being observed, I'm focusing on what's doing the observing.

I agree with you that our brain can (and does all the time) piece together motion where there is none. But, in order to do that, our brain requires cause and effect, physics, chemsitry, the laws of nature. It seems to me that the stills scenario obliterates cause and effect. Without cause and effect, our brains (and everything) don't work, at least not how we presently understand them to work.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:16 am

Kraftster wrote:You're focusing on what's being observed, I'm focusing on what's doing the observing.

I agree with you that our brain can (and does all the time) piece together motion where there is none. But, in order to do that, our brain requires cause and effect, physics, chemsitry, the laws of nature. It seems to me that the stills scenario obliterates cause and effect. Without cause and effect, our brains (and everything) don't work, at least not how we presently understand them to work.

I see. Sound logic, homes.
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:22 am

I guess there's no reason the example you gave could not be extended to the brain. Perhaps what we perceive as cause and effect is already the illusion. If that's the case with motion of a ball, no reason its not the case with neurons in the brain, I 'spose. Our perception of how we perceive is an illusion just like everything else. ( :!: )
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:24 am

Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:You're focusing on what's being observed, I'm focusing on what's doing the observing.

I agree with you that our brain can (and does all the time) piece together motion where there is none. But, in order to do that, our brain requires cause and effect, physics, chemsitry, the laws of nature. It seems to me that the stills scenario obliterates cause and effect. Without cause and effect, our brains (and everything) don't work, at least not how we presently understand them to work.

I see. Sound logic, homes. Just shut up already.


Right? :lol:
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby bhaw on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:24 am

Kraftster wrote:I guess there's no reason the example you gave could not be extended to the brain. Perhaps what we perceive as cause and effect is already the illusion. If that's the case with motion of a ball, no reason its not the case with neurons in the brain, I 'spose. Our perception of how we perceive is an illusion just like everything else. ( :!: )


Such world would probably be highly dependent on an omnipotent creator.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,740
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:27 am

bhaw wrote:
Kraftster wrote:I guess there's no reason the example you gave could not be extended to the brain. Perhaps what we perceive as cause and effect is already the illusion. If that's the case with motion of a ball, no reason its not the case with neurons in the brain, I 'spose. Our perception of how we perceive is an illusion just like everything else. ( :!: )


Such world would probably be highly dependent on an omnipotent creator.


At first blush, I'd be more inclined to believe that I'm here because of the creation of an omnipotent divine creator than I would be to believe that our perception of everything is all an illusion generated by some mental process we don't understand which makes it feel like a bunch of stills randomly organized (yet somehow consistently relating to one another) are in motion and in time.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:29 am

Kraftster wrote:
Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:You're focusing on what's being observed, I'm focusing on what's doing the observing.

I agree with you that our brain can (and does all the time) piece together motion where there is none. But, in order to do that, our brain requires cause and effect, physics, chemsitry, the laws of nature. It seems to me that the stills scenario obliterates cause and effect. Without cause and effect, our brains (and everything) don't work, at least not how we presently understand them to work.

I see. Sound logic, homes. Just shut up already.


Right? :lol:

:lol: I enjoyed this discussion.

Just to be clear: I have no idea on whether I believe that line of thought or not.
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:34 am

Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:
Physical_Graffiti wrote:
Kraftster wrote:You're focusing on what's being observed, I'm focusing on what's doing the observing.

I agree with you that our brain can (and does all the time) piece together motion where there is none. But, in order to do that, our brain requires cause and effect, physics, chemsitry, the laws of nature. It seems to me that the stills scenario obliterates cause and effect. Without cause and effect, our brains (and everything) don't work, at least not how we presently understand them to work.

I see. Sound logic, homes. Just shut up already.


Right? :lol:

:lol: I enjoyed this discussion.

Just to be clear: I have no idea on whether I believe that line of thought or not.


Me neither. :scared:
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby bhaw on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:47 am

Kraftster wrote:
bhaw wrote:
Kraftster wrote:I guess there's no reason the example you gave could not be extended to the brain. Perhaps what we perceive as cause and effect is already the illusion. If that's the case with motion of a ball, no reason its not the case with neurons in the brain, I 'spose. Our perception of how we perceive is an illusion just like everything else. ( :!: )


Such world would probably be highly dependent on an omnipotent creator.


At first blush, I'd be more inclined to believe that I'm here because of the creation of an omnipotent divine creator than I would be to believe that our perception of everything is all an illusion generated by some mental process we don't understand which makes it feel like a bunch of stills randomly organized (yet somehow consistently relating to one another) are in motion and in time.


I agree. Just saying. :)

I remember from philosophy that there is a line of thinking that is along the same lines, but instead of being a bunch of stills, we are all just existing in our own mind and not actually WITH each other. So if you apply that, our brain isn't relating to one another, I am just creating the relation in my own head.

That's a one off, but in the end, I'm more inclined to go with traditional thought and science on this one. I have a hard time even seeing how this "stills" line of existence could even make sense beyond being a neat alternative to talk about.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,740
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Kraftster on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:54 am

I subscribe to that line of thinking to some extent. I believe with 10/10 certainty that I exist, but I'm only at about a 9.5 for you (and everyone else). :)

I agree on it being a silly alternative theory too. The guy kind of annoys me the more I read about him.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,602
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby obhave on Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:47 pm

Could scientists of just discovered antiviral drug that could cure multiple different viral infections?

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/antiviral-0810.html
obhave
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,918
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:56 pm

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby ILikeTurtles on Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:17 pm

New IBM computer chip mimics the human brain
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/08/18/ibm.brain.chip/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
(CNN) -- Making computers behave like humans has taken another step forward.

IBM on Thursday announced it has created a chip designed to imitate the human brain's ability to understand its surroundings, act on things that happen around it and make sense of complex data.
ILikeTurtles
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,950
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:39 pm
Location: Searching the Congo for Crocosaurus.

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby doublem on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:29 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/scien ... .html?_r=1

Team Claims It Has Found Oldest Fossils.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:39 pm

doublem wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/science/earth/22fossil.html?_r=1

Team Claims It Has Found Oldest Fossils.


In before JoePa joke.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,586
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Shutter Island

Re: LGP Science Thread

Postby doublem on Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:13 pm

Why we'll never have children.
People tell my wife and me that we'll change our minds. But I can't bear the idea of passing on my mental illness.

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/ ... _have_kids
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


e-mail