Where are my Gun Owners?

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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby Shyster on Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:29 pm

Interesting summary of a chat with the CEO of SIG Sauer at The Truth About Guns:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... s-us-2015/

According to the CEO, SIG plans to move production of all of their guns for US sale to the US. He also says SIG is working on updating the manufacturing of the P210 in order to bring down costs. I hope that succeeds, because a P210 is on my bucket list of guns I'd like to own. It would really hit the spot if they could knock about $2,000 off its price.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:47 pm

Forgive me for not reading all 33 pages of this thread, but I have a couple questions.

I'm thinking of buying a handgun as I do a lot of traveling to very remote wilderness areas and think a handgun might be smart item to have in case of a breakdown miles from the nearest house, etc. Not protection from people, but bears, sasquatches, etc. ;) I've checked about getting a concealed carry permit and it seems all I need to do is fill out a form and give it to the county sheriff along with a modest fee. I have no background or character issues which would cause any issues, so it seems I'd easily be approved.

Should I wait to start shopping for a pistol until I get the permit? The law seems to say I can't have a gun in my vehicle without the permit, so if I bought a handgun and drove home with it, I'd be breaking the law, correct? It doesn't look like there's a waiting period to purchase a handgun in PA so it wouldn't be any big deal to wait until the permit is approved (which could take 45 days, apparently). :(

So, what handgun would you recommend? I'd definitely be interested in some target shooting for fun a few times a year, but outside of that it will get virtually no use so I'd rather not break the bank.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby dodint on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:11 pm

Concealed carry handgun that can scare off a bear? You got me, buddy. I CC an M9 and that's pushing it for ease of concealment. Though it could be chambered in .40 as the 96FS, so there's that.

For CC on your person I can't say enough about a Ruger LC9. 7rds of 9mm, fits in the palm of my hand, and has a slide safety which I think is important.

If you're going to keep something in the car and not CC on your person, go as big as you want. Anything above a .357 is probably unwieldy and would scare you more than the bear.

Not sure about the CC permit in PA, I had to take a course here in NC. If you bought a pistol I *assume* you'd be fine if you carried it home in your trunk, particularly if you have it trigger locked and away from the ammo. How else do folks that own pistols but don't have a CC permit get to and from safe places to shoot, like a pistol range or some remote land?

Now that I looked it up, just open carry and you'll be fine. :P

Relevant law:

It is unlawful to possess any firearm:

on school property but it shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose;
in a court facility. At or within the building containing a court facility, lockers or similar facilities shall be available by July 1, 2002, at no charge, for the temporary checking of firearms by persons lawfully carrying same. A receipt must be issued to the individual checking a firearm.
upon the public streets or upon any public property during an emergency proclaimed by a governmental executive unless the person carrying is actively engaged in lawful self defense, is licensed to carry firearms, or is exempt from licensing requirements.
upon the public streets or upon any public property in Philadelphia unless the person carrying is licensed to carry firearms or is exempt from licensing requirements.

Any person carrying a handgun in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person’ is required to have a license to carry or a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit (good only for hunting, fishing, trapping and dog training).
However, no license is required:
(1) to carry a handgun in one’s home or fixed place of business;
(2) when engaged in target shooting or while going to or from shooters’ places of assembly or target practice, provided the firearm is unloaded and the ammunition is carried in a separate container;
(3) for law enforcement personnel, including policemen, jail wardens, and sheriffs and their deputies;
(4) to carry an unloaded and securely wrapped firearm from place of purchase to one’s home or place of business, to or from a place of repair, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another, or from one’s home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, to recover stolen property, or to a location to which the person has been directed to surrender firearms or back upon return of the surrendered firearm;
(5) to carry while lawfully hunting or fishing or going to the place of hunting or fishing, provided one has a hunting or fishing license and a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit;
(6) while carrying a firearm in any vehicle when the person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the U.S. or any other state;
(7) by a person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm and said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of that license;
(8) by any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person’s name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

TRANSPORTATION IN A VEHICLE

A handgun being transported in a vehicle without a license to carry must be unloaded and must be carried under one of the exceptions listed above under ‘Carry.’ Rifles and shotguns may be transported in a vehicle as long as they are unloaded.

While transporting a firearm without a license, it is up to the person carrying the firearm to demonstrate that one of the exceptions applies. A law enforcement officer may demand such evidence.


From: http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-la ... vania.aspx
Citing: 18 PA CONS. STAT. § 908; §§ 6101; 6102; 6105-6109; 6110.1; 6110.2; 6111; 6111.2-6111.4; 6117; 6118; 6120; 6122; 6125; 6141.1; 6142

I'd recommend buying the pistol first and getting used to it while your permit processes.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:24 pm

Oh, I won't actually be carrying it on my person but I thought I needed a CC permit to carry it in my Jeep. But it looks like I might have been mistaken about that. I'll probably get the permit anyway since it's only like $30.

And I don't anticipate running into any bears. :lol: It's just the more I travel and get into some pretty remote sections of the mountains, I started thinking that I should have something for protection in case I'd break down or even if I decided to camp in my Jeep for a night or two. I suppose a rifle or shotgun might be a better option for that.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby dodint on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:41 pm

You'll need the permit in the Jeep if you want to carry loaded. Otherwise it should be secured and ammo stored in a separate container until you get to your destination. Like you said, if you get the permit it takes down all those barriers, giving you a lot more leeway if you happen to forget to unload it or stow it properly.

In that scenario you can't go wrong with a shotgun. The only thing you give up is ease of portability if you have to make a trek, and you'd look like a crazy person wandering around the back roads on foot with a shotgun. ;)

Dude. Bears are everywhere. :D
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:08 pm

You need the permit to CC in the jeep. For what you want...I'd look into the Taurus judge. It's a revolver and chambered in .45 and 410 shot shell. They call it the carjacking gun. It never leaves my truck. And you can usually snag one for under $400

Also just get the CCW permit. It is as easy as it sounds and no strings attached
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:03 pm

Don't know who might be interested in this, but a local gun shop just posted this on Facebook:

Image
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby yubb on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:23 am

dodint wrote:I'd recommend buying the pistol first and getting used to it while your permit processes.


That might not go over so well. Took me about 45 seconds for my permit to "process". Might have taken longer if I had my piece out fiddling with it in front of the sheriff. ;)
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby Shyster on Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:57 pm

Depends on the county. Allegheny is taking a while to process applications because they're so busy. Other counties might be much faster. I remember years ago it was possible to walk into the CCW office in Allegheny County and walk out with the permit, but nowadays there's pretty much always a long line snaking back out of the office into the Courthouse's courtyard.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:41 pm

US defence agency successfully trials world's first self-guiding bullet
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 99568.html
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby DelPen on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:57 pm

Shyster wrote:Interesting summary of a chat with the CEO of SIG Sauer at The Truth About Guns:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... s-us-2015/

According to the CEO, SIG plans to move production of all of their guns for US sale to the US. He also says SIG is working on updating the manufacturing of the P210 in order to bring down costs. I hope that succeeds, because a P210 is on my bucket list of guns I'd like to own. It would really hit the spot if they could knock about $2,000 off its price.


Makes sense, a lot of companies do this to get around import bans. Although my Sigs were all made in NH.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby mac5155 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:11 am

yubb wrote:
dodint wrote:I'd recommend buying the pistol first and getting used to it while your permit processes.


That might not go over so well. Took me about 45 seconds for my permit to "process". Might have taken longer if I had my piece out fiddling with it in front of the sheriff. ;)


So what are you gonna buy?!
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:53 pm

Dropped my application for a concealed carry permit at the local sheriff's office today. Told to check back in about 10 days.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby dodint on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:35 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:Dropped my application for a concealed carry permit at the local sheriff's office today. Told to check back in about 10 days.


Not nearly enough time to research and shoot some guns. :pop:

Seriously though, went to A&S in New Stanton last week and they had about 20 rental guns. My Dad is looking for a pistol and wanted to try out a few. The downside is their rental pricing. If you want to switch guns you're best off paying $10/10rds. You're not allowed to switch guns if you get the cheaper 50rd rental. The range I go to in Knoxville is way better, you buy the ammo from them and can swap as often as you want.
I was shooting my M9 with my own ammo so I basically just paid for targets and range time.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby BuckintheLou on Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:48 am

Shyster wrote:
mac5155 wrote:I want something that I can use for both, interchangeably.

The .25s with lighter bullets work fine as varmint rifles. Supposedly the .25-06 is awesome as a varmint rifle, and with good 100+ grain bullets the .25s can even be used on deer. Plenty of people use the .243 Win. on deer, and that's less powerful than a .25-06 or .257 Roberts +P. I must admit, however, that the .25s would be more expensive to feed than the much-more-common .223 or .22-250. If I bought one I would plan to handload for it to save money.


I know I’m waaaaaay late on this. However, the mention of the 25-06 caught my eye. For starters, I am in no way an authority on bullet ballistics but have learned quite a bit on rifle/bullet performance over the years.
Absolutely love this round. I own two rifles chambered in it. A Rem 700 and a custom rifle built by Jim Colvin in Greene County before he passed. Both are extremely accurate shooters and have served me well over the years. The 700 has accounted for a couple dozen white tailed deer and countless groundhogs. Since moving to the St Louis area, it has been my go-to gun for coyotes as well. The custom rifle is built on an old Springfield A3/03 action and is outfitted with a bull barrel, a steel rod re-enforced fiberglass stock and a 6X18X50 Burris scope. Heavy gun! I only use it to shoot paper off the bench.
As for hunting applications, the Model 700 likes Sierra 90 grain hollow point boat tails for groundhogs and ‘yotes’ and the 120 grain spitzer boat tails (Sierra, Speer or Hornady) for deer. I couldn’t tell you much about factory ammunition so you’ll have to pardon me there. I will say (without getting into great detail) that this rifle responds well with IMR 4064 under the 90 grain pills and IMR 4350 or 4831 behind the 120 grainers. Recoil in this necked down version of the 30-06 is minimal so it’s a joy to shoot.
To be fair, there are other options out there in the .24 to .26 caliber range that are capable of good ballistics (i.e., 6mm Rem, the 6.5 Creedmoor, and the 243 Win to name a few) although I do not own any of them. I’ve shot ‘em and helped others develop loads for their respective rifles but I don’t have one in the safe. I hand-load. I shoot. I tweak those hand-loads. I shoot some more. It’s one of my passions.
Sorry for being long-winded so I’ll close with this; it’s hard to do these days but, stay away from plastic molded stocks if you can. Especially on bolt action rifles. They offer nothing in the accuracy department. In fact, they’re a detriment to it. If you can only find your rifle in a plastic stock or wish to squeeze more accuracy out of your current rifle, there are several aftermarket options in wood, laminated wood, fiberglass, Kevlar (or a combination of the two) or one of today’s high tech resins. Manufacturers sold this (plastic idea) to consumers years ago by advertising that it’s unaffected by weather (humidity, moisture, etc). They may be right about that but, it robs accuracy from rifles and saves the company many dollars. Plastic may save you a few bucks on deal as well but to me, it’s not worth the aggravation.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby BuckintheLou on Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:57 am

dodint wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:Dropped my application for a concealed carry permit at the local sheriff's office today. Told to check back in about 10 days.


Not nearly enough time to research and shoot some guns. :pop:

Seriously though, went to A&S in New Stanton last week and they had about 20 rental guns. My Dad is looking for a pistol and wanted to try out a few. The downside is their rental pricing. If you want to switch guns you're best off paying $10/10rds. You're not allowed to switch guns if you get the cheaper 50rd rental. The range I go to in Knoxville is way better, you buy the ammo from them and can swap as often as you want.
I was shooting my M9 with my own ammo so I basically just paid for targets and range time.


Which "Knoxville" Broh? The one with a view of Rocky Top?
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:14 am

BuckintheLou wrote:
Shyster wrote:
mac5155 wrote:I want something that I can use for both, interchangeably.

The .25s with lighter bullets work fine as varmint rifles. Supposedly the .25-06 is awesome as a varmint rifle, and with good 100+ grain bullets the .25s can even be used on deer. Plenty of people use the .243 Win. on deer, and that's less powerful than a .25-06 or .257 Roberts +P. I must admit, however, that the .25s would be more expensive to feed than the much-more-common .223 or .22-250. If I bought one I would plan to handload for it to save money.


I know I’m waaaaaay late on this. However, the mention of the 25-06 caught my eye. For starters, I am in no way an authority on bullet ballistics but have learned quite a bit on rifle/bullet performance over the years.
Absolutely love this round. I own two rifles chambered in it. A Rem 700 and a custom rifle built by Jim Colvin in Greene County before he passed. Both are extremely accurate shooters and have served me well over the years. The 700 has accounted for a couple dozen white tailed deer and countless groundhogs. Since moving to the St Louis area, it has been my go-to gun for coyotes as well. The custom rifle is built on an old Springfield A3/03 action and is outfitted with a bull barrel, a steel rod re-enforced fiberglass stock and a 6X18X50 Burris scope. Heavy gun! I only use it to shoot paper off the bench.
As for hunting applications, the Model 700 likes Sierra 90 grain hollow point boat tails for groundhogs and ‘yotes’ and the 120 grain spitzer boat tails (Sierra, Speer or Hornady) for deer. I couldn’t tell you much about factory ammunition so you’ll have to pardon me there. I will say (without getting into great detail) that this rifle responds well with IMR 4064 under the 90 grain pills and IMR 4350 or 4831 behind the 120 grainers. Recoil in this necked down version of the 30-06 is minimal so it’s a joy to shoot.
To be fair, there are other options out there in the .24 to .26 caliber range that are capable of good ballistics (i.e., 6mm Rem, the 6.5 Creedmoor, and the 243 Win to name a few) although I do not own any of them. I’ve shot ‘em and helped others develop loads for their respective rifles but I don’t have one in the safe. I hand-load. I shoot. I tweak those hand-loads. I shoot some more. It’s one of my passions.
Sorry for being long-winded so I’ll close with this; it’s hard to do these days but, stay away from plastic molded stocks if you can. Especially on bolt action rifles. They offer nothing in the accuracy department. In fact, they’re a detriment to it. If you can only find your rifle in a plastic stock or wish to squeeze more accuracy out of your current rifle, there are several aftermarket options in wood, laminated wood, fiberglass, Kevlar (or a combination of the two) or one of today’s high tech resins. Manufacturers sold this (plastic idea) to consumers years ago by advertising that it’s unaffected by weather (humidity, moisture, etc). They may be right about that but, it robs accuracy from rifles and saves the company many dollars. Plastic may save you a few bucks on deal as well but to me, it’s not worth the aggravation.


I'm holding out for AR-15 rifles to be legal for varmint hunting. Thanks though, it's definitely a help.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby BuckintheLou on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:48 am

I wish you much patience while you wait for the law to change.
Although I'm not an advocate for hunting deer with semi's (a LOT of hunters in the woods during the short season), I could see them being useful for 'yotes' and such.
The thing we have to realize is that the laws pertain to everybody and not everybody has good sense.
Translation: "there are some really stupid people walking amongst us".
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby mac5155 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:51 am

Yeah, most of the stupid folks only show up the 2 weeks after Thanksgiving. I think the law takes that into account, too.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby dodint on Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:07 pm

BuckintheLou wrote:
dodint wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:Dropped my application for a concealed carry permit at the local sheriff's office today. Told to check back in about 10 days.


Not nearly enough time to research and shoot some guns. :pop:

Seriously though, went to A&S in New Stanton last week and they had about 20 rental guns. My Dad is looking for a pistol and wanted to try out a few. The downside is their rental pricing. If you want to switch guns you're best off paying $10/10rds. You're not allowed to switch guns if you get the cheaper 50rd rental. The range I go to in Knoxville is way better, you buy the ammo from them and can swap as often as you want.
I was shooting my M9 with my own ammo so I basically just paid for targets and range time.


Which "Knoxville" Broh? The one with a view of Rocky Top?


My Uncle lives in Maryville, TN, so we go to http://www.tacticaladvantagecorp.com/ and shoot their indoor range. It's where I first shot the Desert Eagle .50AE:



mac5155 wrote:Yeah, most of the stupid folks only show up the 2 weeks after Thanksgiving. I think the law takes that into account, too.


Like me! I'm probably hunting for the first time this year. Been trying the last few years but it may work out this year.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby mac5155 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:44 pm

Eh, the first timers are probably safer than the drunk hillbillies I hunt with. Lol
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby BuckintheLou on Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:07 pm

dodint wrote:
BuckintheLou wrote:
dodint wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:Dropped my application for a concealed carry permit at the local sheriff's office today. Told to check back in about 10 days.


Not nearly enough time to research and shoot some guns. :pop:

Seriously though, went to A&S in New Stanton last week and they had about 20 rental guns. My Dad is looking for a pistol and wanted to try out a few. The downside is their rental pricing. If you want to switch guns you're best off paying $10/10rds. You're not allowed to switch guns if you get the cheaper 50rd rental. The range I go to in Knoxville is way better, you buy the ammo from them and can swap as often as you want.
I was shooting my M9 with my own ammo so I basically just paid for targets and range time.


Which "Knoxville" Broh? The one with a view of Rocky Top?


My Uncle lives in Maryville, TN, so we go to http://www.tacticaladvantagecorp.com/ and shoot their indoor range. It's where I first shot the Desert Eagle .50AE:



mac5155 wrote:Yeah, most of the stupid folks only show up the 2 weeks after Thanksgiving. I think the law takes that into account, too.


Like me! I'm probably hunting for the first time this year. Been trying the last few years but it may work out this year.


Pretty sweet. That's one you got to hang on to when you drop the hammer. I lived in East Tennessee (Morristown) for 2 years when I had a break in service.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby Hockeynut! on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:40 pm

I received my pistol today. I went with a Ruger SR9e. Also bought a N82 holster in case I decide to carry it when my concealed carry permit goes through. Busy all day today but I look forward to taking it to the range tomorrow and breaking it in.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby ffemtreed on Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:I received my pistol today. I went with a Ruger SR9e. Also bought a N82 holster in case I decide to carry it when my concealed carry permit goes through. Busy all day today but I look forward to taking it to the range tomorrow and breaking it in.


Very nice choice!

If you end up not liking that holster, check out crossbread holsters. They are about as comfortable as you can get.

Make sure you give that gun a good cleaning / lube before you take it to the range. If you are unsure of how to do it I am sure youtube has some great videos.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners?

Postby mac5155 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:43 pm

Snowballs chance in hell you don't like that holster lol. Did you go with the tuck or pro series? I have a pro series holster for my CCW from N82. It's probably the best holster ever made and totally worth the $75
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