Where are my Gun Owners?

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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:33 pm

I think false. Under the NFA, I believe a smooth-bore shotgun must have a barrel length of no less than 18 inches and an overall length of no less than 26 inches. Any combination of shortening the barrel or butt that would take you under that overall length would be the manufacture of an NFA weapon, which is a felony.

If you are thinking of home-brewing yourself something akin to a Taurus Judge, the reason the Judge and similar guns can be that short is because their barrels are rifled, and thus to the BATFE they’re handguns to begin with and not shotguns.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:38 pm

Shyster wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:I subscribe to the digital version of Recoil. I know it's the Maxim of gun periodicals. But I once subscribed to Maxim, too.

I've picked up a couple issues of Recoil, but I don't think I care too much for it. Haven't they already had a couple cases where they said something that ticked off a lot of people? I forget what they were.

Like we mentioned before, the [Heckler & Koch] MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands.

In retrospect, given the general target audience of the publication, the editor - Jerry Tsai - was an absolute boob for saying that. I personally don't have a problem with the statement, but the 2A crowd absolutely sh|t their cages over it and Tsai was forced to resign.

meow wrote:True or false: it is legal to saw off my 410 as long as the barrel is 18.5 inches from the break to the business end AND I saw the butt off to simulate a pistol grip.

I believe that is legal provided the overall length is still >26". I think the actual limit on barrel length is 18", but this is absolutely something you don't want to mess with or risk falling foul of.... the extra half inch (or full inch) is really just a buffer to leave no doubt that you're still complying with the law.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:39 pm

Took too long to find the stupid Recoil quote, Shyster beat me to the punch on the shotgun question. ;)
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:06 pm

tifosi77 wrote:In retrospect, given the general target audience of the publication, the editor - Jerry Tsai - was an absolute boob for saying that. I personally don't have a problem with the statement, but the 2A crowd absolutely sh|t their cages over it and Tsai was forced to resign.

Coincidentally, I just so happened to run across this article earlier today, which apparently has been in wide circulation on the interwebs since it was written by Larry Correia in 2007:

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

Their position on the MP7A1 ain't exactly working to dispel Mr. Correia's view. :lol:
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby meow on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:49 pm

So at least an 18 inch barrel with a total length of 26 inches? Fire up the ban saw, fixing me a boom stick.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:48 am

Shyster wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:In retrospect, given the general target audience of the publication, the editor - Jerry Tsai - was an absolute boob for saying that. I personally don't have a problem with the statement, but the 2A crowd absolutely sh|t their cages over it and Tsai was forced to resign.

Coincidentally, I just so happened to run across this article earlier today, which apparently has been in wide circulation on the interwebs since it was written by Larry Correia in 2007:

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

Their position on the MP7A1 ain't exactly working to dispel Mr. Correia's view. :lol:

:lol:

I don't have any real experience with most of the weapons he mentions, but the author's comments about the HK45 are spot on. They took a truly excellent pistol - the USP - and turned it into something utterly terrible. This is called 'improvement'.

Shoot the two back-to-back if you ever get a chance. I don't understand how they've sold a single HK45.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:22 pm

meow wrote:So at least an 18 inch barrel with a total length of 26 inches? Fire up the ban saw, fixing me a boom stick.

This document describes how the ATF measures barrel and overall length. I didn't know they do so by measuring the inside of the barrel with a rod. I would be careful to make sure your finished product is over the minimum length so the ATF could never come back at you. There's a reason that even though the minimum barrel length is 18" most companies make their shortest shotgun barrels 18.5".

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/d ... pter-2.pdf
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby meow on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:31 pm

Shyster wrote:
meow wrote:So at least an 18 inch barrel with a total length of 26 inches? Fire up the ban saw, fixing me a boom stick.

This document describes how the ATF measures barrel and overall length. I didn't know they do so by measuring the inside of the barrel with a rod. I would be careful to make sure your finished product is over the minimum length so the ATF could never come back at you. There's a reason that even though the minimum barrel length is 18" most companies make their shortest shotgun barrels 18.5".

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/d ... pter-2.pdf

I was planning on giving myself an extra .5 inch for the barrel and the overall length just to be on the cautious side. At the end of the day, that extra inch total isn't that big of a deal.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:32 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I don't have any real experience with most of the weapons he mentions, but the author's comments about the HK45 are spot on. They took a truly excellent pistol - the USP - and turned it into something utterly terrible. This is called 'improvement'.

Shoot the two back-to-back if you ever get a chance. I don't understand how they've sold a single HK45.

I must admit I’ve never shot any H&K product, and I’m not aware of any of my shootin’ buddies owning any. Their cost never seemed to me to be justified by their performance.

I looked more into the MP7A1, and it just seems to be a competitor—both in terms of size and of ammunition—to the FN P90, which I must note has been on sale in the United States in the legal-barrel, semi-auto PS90 version since somewhere around 2005. Despite that fact, I’m not aware of a single PS90 ever being used by the “wrong, slimy hands” to commit a crime. That might have something to do with the fact that they cost way over $1,000, and I’m sure a H&K MP7A1 would top that in price.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:02 pm

I just Googled it and the HK is over $2000.... which somehow seems surprisingly inexpensive. Relatively speaking, of course.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:56 pm

A few recent catalogs from Cabela’s featured something I haven’t seen in months: prices for ammunition. Heck, most of the catalogs this year said something more-or-less along the lines of “We may have ammo. We may not. See our web page.” I haven’t been in any brick-and-mortar shops recently, so I don’t know if this is a sign that the larger ammo shortage is easing. Has anyone noticed more ammo on the shelves?
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:33 pm

My gun shop has a bunch of DPMS AR 15s in and something holding me back from buying one (aside from its not the smartest financial thing at the moment) is that I'm not sure the ammo climate. I know when I go to Walmart, all they seem to ever have are hunting rifle calibers.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby DelPen on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:10 pm

check gunbot.net for latest in stock deals. The prices have come down if you can find anything in stock and there is a lot of reasonably priced ammo out there in .223
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:19 pm

Okay, silly question....... blued or stainless? Aesthetically, it makes no real difference for me. The gun won't be carried; strictly home defense. I just don't know any of the ins and outs of the two finishes, if one is easier to keep clean, etc.

I have a line on a stainless USP 45 for well under the usual going rate of two sacks of gold. Wondering if I should move on it.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby DelPen on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:24 pm

Stainless is easier to keep clean. If you get a scratch you could polish it out too and not have to refinish it. I prefer stainless but blued is almost always cheaper. If you don't care about the looks get it.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:49 pm

I think it also depends on what we’re talking about when we say “blued.” Old-fashioned rust bluing (like on vintage revolvers, for example) offers a decent amount of protection but was subject to scratching and could still rust or pit. A lot of the whiz-bang modern finishes like tennifer, melonite, cerakote, etc. are way tougher and much more resistant to corrosion. From what I understand, they’re pretty much every bit as tough as stainless. Also, some of the “blued” slides are just blackened stainless steel anyway. For example, IIRC the Kahr guns with black slides are just coated stainless anyway.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:54 pm

According to the H&K site it is "Corrosion resistant 'Hostile Environment' blued finish", which I'm sure is why the thing normally costs $1,000......

Anyway, it's a moot point. It was a gunbroker auction and I didn't realize it was ending like five minutes after I left the initial post. Had no bids, which seems suspicious. But it has been relisted.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:12 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Anyway, it's a moot point. It was a gunbroker auction and I didn't realize it was ending like five minutes after I left the initial post. Had no bids, which seems suspicious. But it has been relisted.

So did you buy it? And if so, is purchasing a H&K a concession that you suck? :wink:
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:25 pm

Speaking of H&K.. That MP5 is sick
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:54 pm

Shyster wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:Anyway, it's a moot point. It was a gunbroker auction and I didn't realize it was ending like five minutes after I left the initial post. Had no bids, which seems suspicious. But it has been relisted.

So did you buy it? And if so, is purchasing a H&K a concession that you suck? :wink:

I would concede that anyway. :P

Sadly, I didn't get it; sold for $755, and I'm cranky.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:55 pm

So are my fellow gun owners expecting anything new from Santa this year? I haven’t yet decided whether a new firearm is in the cards, but there are several strong candidates that are really tempting me. My three top candidates are the newly re-released Ruger Red Label shotgun, the limited-edition Lipsey’s Ruger New Bearcat with the birds-head grip, and a SIG P250 2SUM pack with the full-size and subcompact grip frames in 9mm. I already bought magazines for the P250*, but then again the Lipsey’s Bearcat is a special run that will only be around for a limited time. The SIG and the shotgun aren’t going anywhere.

*For the record, this isn’t even the first time I’ve bought mags for a gun I didn’t yet own.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:57 pm

I have my eye on a 22-250 for coyote and groundhog. But the AR15 Remington at Walmart for $697 is so tempting.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:40 pm

mac5155 wrote:I have my eye on a 22-250 for coyote and groundhog. But the AR15 Remington at Walmart for $697 is so tempting.

For some reason, I really want to own something in .25 caliber for that sort of application, like say .257 Roberts or .250 Savage. I think I just have a contrarian streak.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:11 am

I want something that I can use for both, interchangeably. I really wish I was allowed to hunt with a MSR because I'd buy one yesterday. I had my eye on a .17WSM (new caliber this year) but since I am not legally restricted to rimfire, I feel centerfire will still be a better option. Still torn between a regular 22-250 or just get a .223 bolt action. Still, I didnt know that you can special order almost any rifle at Walmart (and I get a 10% discount due to my wife's employment)
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:45 am

mac5155 wrote:I have my eye on a 22-250 for coyote and groundhog. But the AR15 Remington at Walmart for $697 is so tempting.



Go for the AR -- its more versatile for just about anything you want to hunt. Get a .22LR conversion or dedicated upper for the ground hogs. Use the .223 for the coyotes and get yourself a .300 blackout SBR upper with a suppressor for home defense!

Although, that 22-250 rounds is great for some distance shooting varmints!
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