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DelPen wrote:I teach a protection inside and outside the home class which does do the real world situations, taking both of those along with the basic pistol puts you at around 30-36 hours of training.
tifosi77 wrote:DelPen wrote:I teach a protection inside and outside the home class which does do the real world situations, taking both of those along with the basic pistol puts you at around 30-36 hours of training.
See, I think that should be the minimum for CCW, and I think it makes sense as a baseline level just for ownership as well. I'm not necessarily saying that a full week's worth of instruction should be mandatory for gun owners, but I personally wouldn't feel comfortable not doing that of my own volition. But for CCW, yeah, it should be required.
It's an incredible responsibility, owning a gun, even if it only ever leaves your nightstand or safe for range time. Never mind if you wear it on your hip when you go to the mall. I've said in other discussions that while I'm happy to go to the range and rent pistols to kill paper for half an hour on my lunch break, the mere fact that I can do this with only a drivers license is somewhat alarming. I've seen such knuckleheadedry at the local indoor range.... I'm surprised I haven't been hit in the face with a chunk of someone's thumb yet.
ffemtreed wrote:I forget who did the study, but it was a major university that showed that police officers are more prone to negligent discharges than gun owners (as a percentage). Look at all the training police officers go through and qualification every year on the range. Even if you don't agree with the study, its still a fact that even with all the training police officers still do dumb things with their guns and have accidents.
tifosi77 wrote:ffemtreed wrote:I forget who did the study, but it was a major university that showed that police officers are more prone to negligent discharges than gun owners (as a percentage). Look at all the training police officers go through and qualification every year on the range. Even if you don't agree with the study, its still a fact that even with all the training police officers still do dumb things with their guns and have accidents.
This is where the 2A crowd consistently loses me as a supporter, the notion that any regulation is an infringement.
My father-in-law imparted some wise words the first time we went to the range, and it's something I've read in many publications on the topic; the more familiar you are with guns, the more you handle them, the more dangerous you become. Bad habits creep in as familiarity with the weapon makes it boring. How many YouTube videos are there of police officers shooting themselves in the leg during firearms safety classes in front of schoolchildren?
This isn't a case of wanting to impinge anyone's rights, or an attempt to address a perceived problem about an imperiled populace. Look at my posting history and how I have consistently decried the gun control measures in NY, IL, my home state of CA, etc as useless knee-jerk namby pambyism. And while I'm generally reluctant to charge down the slippery slope of legislating how Constitutional rights may be exercised, this also is not in any way shape or form analogous to the exercise of voting rights. The issue of training and education necessary to vote has been dealt with: you cannot vote in this country unless you are 18 years of age, by which time you've had about 11-12 years of training schooling under your belt. Are there exceptions to that? Of course. But that's generally the run of play.
If I carry a gun in public, that's a different kettle of fish. And I think it's wise that there be a covenant with the public that the people that are permitted to do so aren't jumpy nitwits with the stress decision making capabilities of a panicked mongoose. Laws passed by incompetents elected by an ignorant body politic can be repealed. The incompetent legislators can be voted out of office. (They never are, but they can be) Bullets cannot be recalled from the gun once loosed. I'd like to know the person making the decision to break has had a at least some opportunity to do so in a controlled environment.
mac5155 wrote:So I was cleaning my hunting rifle today and can't figure out what I did wrong but the action is so stiff now. When I pull the trigger it takes even more force to lift the bolt up. Any ideas?
ffemtreed wrote:mac5155 wrote:So I was cleaning my hunting rifle today and can't figure out what I did wrong but the action is so stiff now. When I pull the trigger it takes even more force to lift the bolt up. Any ideas?
What kind of rifle and what did you do to clean it? Full disassemble or just remove and clean the bolt and swab the barrel?
ffemtreed wrote:And if you think some 8 or 16 hour course is going to help overcome a stress factor in shooting, you are sadly mistaken.
tifosi77 wrote:
I frankly don't have a problem with making the 30-36 hours DelPen talks about in the classes he teaches the baseline minimum for obtaining a CCW.
mac5155 wrote:ffemtreed wrote:mac5155 wrote:So I was cleaning my hunting rifle today and can't figure out what I did wrong but the action is so stiff now. When I pull the trigger it takes even more force to lift the bolt up. Any ideas?
What kind of rifle and what did you do to clean it? Full disassemble or just remove and clean the bolt and swab the barrel?
Savage 110 .308
Just removed the bolt and swabbed the barrel.
mac5155 wrote:So I was cleaning my hunting rifle today and can't figure out what I did wrong but the action is so stiff now. When I pull the trigger it takes even more force to lift the bolt up. Any ideas?
ffemtreed wrote:tifosi77 wrote:
I frankly don't have a problem with making the 30-36 hours DelPen talks about in the classes he teaches the baseline minimum for obtaining a CCW.
The devil will be in the details of this training, who can teach it? where is it going to be offered? How frequent are the classes held? how much will it cost? How do you track it? Who provides the infrastructure to track this? How is it enforced? Who pays for the enforcement? How often do you need to take it/refresh? How do you keep politicians from abusing the training requirement?
tifosi77 wrote:I am going to say something here that will probably come as a massive surprise to some, but....... I'm inclined to let the NRA make the regulations. (I mean, they kinda do anyway) Take the clutch of classes that DelPen teaches, or similar classes. Call it Basic Handgun I, Defensive Shooting I & II (in-home and outside) and a CCW class. I'm guessing that's perhaps 40 hours of instruction and practical experience.
Now, for an exercise, I'd like to hear the shooting reasons for not having this level of instruction for CCW. I'm all-too familiar with the Constitutional-based rationales for not mandating it.... let's hear the practical ones for not doing this.
Also, we're not really talking much real-world possibility here. I'm merely saying what I think should be the way of things. I know that level of qualification is a pipedream.
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