LGP NASCAR Thread

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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby relantel on Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:27 pm

Rainout, and rain shortened. Surprised they called it at 3pm eastern on a track with lights.

First career win for Almirola, and unlike his lone Nationwide win, he gets to celebrate in Victory Lane. (He started a race when Denny Hamlin couldn't get there on time, and was replaced mid-race, with Hamlin ending up in Victory Lane, with Almirola credited with the win in the history books)

First time Petty 43 wins since 1999 at Martinsville (and John Andretti driving). Most of the big names were involved in a big one on lap 20, when Gordon, Stewart and Stenhouse tangled at the front of the field. Knocked out Stewart, Stenhouse, Edwards, Harvick and Johnson and damaged Gordon, Earnhardt, Bayne, Kenseth. TNT cited that 7 of the 10 winners on the season were involved in that wreck, so I'm missing a couple names of the 11 total involved. A later wreck took out 15 cars, such that only 17 cars finished on the lead lap. Terry Labonte almost had a top 10, finishing 11th.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby JS© on Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:16 pm

I wanted to watch this race, but the TNT crew was at commercial for 8 of the first 10 laps. Rainout, Big One, and by the time it was cleanup was done I had other things to do.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby Sigwolf on Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:30 pm

This, more than anything yet, demonstrates what a circus sideshow Nascar has become. A driver ranked 21st in points is now in "the chase" because he "won" a race... only he didn't really win, he just happened to be leading at some arbitrary point in the race when it started raining, and they decided to end the race. So why not let drivers into "the chase" for merely leading a lap at some point in the season?

Better yet... why don't they let drivers get in "the chase" for participating in a race at some point in the season? Then the champion could be determined by which one has the most accumulated points from all 36 races added together, ya know, from actually racing? Nah, that would be crazy.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby relantel on Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:21 am

Sigwolf wrote:Better yet... why don't they let drivers get in "the chase" for participating in a race at some point in the season? Then the champion could be determined by which one has the most accumulated points from all 36 races added together, ya know, from actually racing? Nah, that would be crazy.


It would be nice to have the way it used to be. I haven't checked recently, but I think I saw that half of the chase winners wouldn't have won under the non-chase system. Just a quick check:

chase/non chase
2013 - Johnson by 19 over Kenseth (Johnson by 41 over Harvick)
2012 - Keselowski by 39 over Bowyer (Keselowski by 19 over Biffle)
2011 - Stewart, by tiebreaker over Edwards (Edwards by 78 over Harvick)
2010 - Johnson by 39 over Hamlin (Harvick by 285 over Johnson)
2009 - Johnson by 141 over Martin (Johnson by 66 over Gordon)
2008 - Johnson by 69 over Edwards (Edwards by 16 over Johnson)
2007 - Johnson by 77 over Gordon (Gordon by 353 over Johnson)
2006 - Johnson by 56 over Kenseth (Johnson by 4 over Kenseth)
2005 - Stewart by 35 over Biffle (Stewart by 215 over Biffle)
2004 - Busch, Ku by 8 over Johnson (Gordon by 47 over Johnson)

So... 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2012 were closer finishes non-chase than chase. 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010 and 2011 were different Champion.


So... old system all the way, Johnson a 3 time champ and Gordon is 6 timer, with Edwards twice and Harvick once. Though those are all colored by the 48 team sandbagging some of those regular seasons, and flipping the switch for the Chase. Think 2010 might have been the year the 48 was 7th in the points after Richmond. The net effect is one really doesn't know what would have happened in the non-chase scenario since the non-chase scenario wasn't in play.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:56 pm

relantel wrote:Rainout, and rain shortened. Surprised they called it at 3pm eastern on a track with lights.

First career win for Almirola, and unlike his lone Nationwide win, he gets to celebrate in Victory Lane. (He started a race when Denny Hamlin couldn't get there on time, and was replaced mid-race, with Hamlin ending up in Victory Lane, with Almirola credited with the win in the history books)

First time Petty 43 wins since 1999 at Martinsville (and John Andretti driving). Most of the big names were involved in a big one on lap 20, when Gordon, Stewart and Stenhouse tangled at the front of the field. Knocked out Stewart, Stenhouse, Edwards, Harvick and Johnson and damaged Gordon, Earnhardt, Bayne, Kenseth. TNT cited that 7 of the 10 winners on the season were involved in that wreck, so I'm missing a couple names of the 11 total involved. A later wreck took out 15 cars, such that only 17 cars finished on the lead lap. Terry Labonte almost had a top 10, finishing 11th.

They were wrong on 7/10. They omitted Hamlin. It was 6/10. Busch, Busch, Hamlin, and Logano avoided. Keselowski lost part of his valence in the initial crash.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:59 pm

relantel wrote:
Sigwolf wrote:Better yet... why don't they let drivers get in "the chase" for participating in a race at some point in the season? Then the champion could be determined by which one has the most accumulated points from all 36 races added together, ya know, from actually racing? Nah, that would be crazy.


It would be nice to have the way it used to be. I haven't checked recently, but I think I saw that half of the chase winners wouldn't have won under the non-chase system. Just a quick check:

chase/non chase
2013 - Johnson by 19 over Kenseth (Johnson by 41 over Harvick)
2012 - Keselowski by 39 over Bowyer (Keselowski by 19 over Biffle)
2011 - Stewart, by tiebreaker over Edwards (Edwards by 78 over Harvick)
2010 - Johnson by 39 over Hamlin (Harvick by 285 over Johnson)
2009 - Johnson by 141 over Martin (Johnson by 66 over Gordon)
2008 - Johnson by 69 over Edwards (Edwards by 16 over Johnson)
2007 - Johnson by 77 over Gordon (Gordon by 353 over Johnson)
2006 - Johnson by 56 over Kenseth (Johnson by 4 over Kenseth)
2005 - Stewart by 35 over Biffle (Stewart by 215 over Biffle)
2004 - Busch, Ku by 8 over Johnson (Gordon by 47 over Johnson)

So... 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2012 were closer finishes non-chase than chase. 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010 and 2011 were different Champion.


So... old system all the way, Johnson a 3 time champ and Gordon is 6 timer, with Edwards twice and Harvick once. Though those are all colored by the 48 team sandbagging some of those regular seasons, and flipping the switch for the Chase. Think 2010 might have been the year the 48 was 7th in the points after Richmond. The net effect is one really doesn't know what would have happened in the non-chase scenario since the non-chase scenario wasn't in play.

Cool stats, Rel. I think you're use of "closer" is misleading, though. The ultimate race ends up "closer," but the first five races of the Chase will always feel "closer" than the non-Chase format because each driver feels like has a chance to win, and everyone is actually closer in points. The gem of the old Chase is that it makes the last races before Chicago a lot more interesting, and it makes the first five race of the Chase more interesting. The last five races of the season are usually close enough to be interesting, too. So, I think it does what it's supposed to do.

Boy, do I hate the new system, though.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby relantel on Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:47 pm

Hammer makes some good points, about the appearance of more being in contention at that point in the season (leading up to the cutoff, start of the chase).

for those points, 2010 was the last year of the old 175, 170, 165, 160, 155, 150, 146, 142, 138, 134, 130, 127, 124, 121, etc. down to 40, 37, 34 point system, where 2011 forward was the 1 point per position 43-1.

It was the 2003 season and the whopping lead that Matt Kenseth had on the field that led to the Chase. Though by the end of the season, Johnson had closed to within 90 points, but with 2 races to go the margin was 228 over Earnhardt and 241 over Johnson -- but it was a whopping 436 point lead with 8 races to go (473 over Johnson). That and Kenseth won the title winning only a single race. Reactionary attitudes gave us the Chase.

Though I agree I'd rather the flat 10 race sprint than the stepped 3-3-3-1, where points don't matter in the final race.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:27 pm

Pretty awesome infographic really showing why the Nationwide Series has gotten so crappy in recent years. On another note, the Chicagoland race has been entertaining tonight. So nice not having as many Cup drivers poaching for wins:

Image
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby JS© on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:34 pm

Couldn't they also limit the number of times that a full-time Cup rider is able to enter a Nationwide race throughout the year?
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby relantel on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:20 pm

JS© wrote:Couldn't they also limit the number of times that a full-time Cup rider is able to enter a Nationwide race throughout the year?

that may well be next. They thought they were doing it when they made full time cup drivers ineligible for Nationwide or Truck points. But the real key is the aligned schedule. So many great short tracks on that 1997 Busch schedule. Hickory. Nashville Fairgrounds. Myrtle Beach. Pikes Peak. South Boston. Gateway. Nazareth. IRP.

If one goes back even further... would be interesting to compare 1984 or 1990. 1982 for example had Langley, Caraway and Asheville, but had Hickory on the schedule 6 times, and South Boston and Martinsville both 3 times. In 29 races, only 6 at tracks a mile in length or more: Daytona, Darlington, Dover, Charlotte, Rockingham and Charlotte again. http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/1982/B

The following year, 1983, it was 29 short tracks and 6 superspeedways -- Hickory and South Boston 5 times each - http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/1983/B
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby dodint on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:45 pm

South Boston is fun. I've walked that track and raced it a lot in iRacing. Would love to see a Nationwide throwback day there. heh.
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Re: LGP NASCAR Thread

Postby relantel on Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:49 am

dodint wrote:South Boston is fun. I've walked that track and raced it a lot in iRacing. Would love to see a Nationwide throwback day there. heh.

It's only been 14 years since Busch raced there - 2000 was last race. Then there were three years of Trucks (last 2003). The East series (ex Busch North series) raced there from 07-11 while the Southern Modified Tour has been there since 2009.

I haven't actually been there, but that length - 4/10 since 1994 - is a good one. Myrtle Beach was a little larger - and is still a nice track to visit during vacation - but also last saw the Busch Series in 2000.

Heck, even by 1999, the Busch schedule was 9 tracks less than a mile in length and 23 a mile or more. Yet only 5 drivers who had a cup win won that season - Mark Martin (6), Jeff Gordon, Jeff Burton, Terry Labonte and Joe Nemechek (who had his first cup win earlier in 1999 at Loudon). So 10 by Cup winners, and 22 by Busch regulars or winless Cup drivers (at the time).
http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/1999/B
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