LGP Education thread

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:33 am

VICE documentary on Chicago school that is for kids that would otherwise go to juvy. Honestly this situations is so bad that I wouldn't even waste money on educating these kids. Put them into work camps or something with a guaranteed wage and a trade education or something.

NSFW Language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-B_kmAebbQ
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,109
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:52 am

barf. at 11 minutes, a girl talks about stabbing a boy with a pencil because he made kissy faces at her. her mother chimes in blaming the boy for provoking her into to stabbing him. because stabbing = kissy face apparently.
shmenguin
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,067
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:53 am

shmenguin wrote:barf. at 11 minutes, a girl talks about stabbing a boy with a pencil because he made kissy faces at her. her mother chimes in blaming the boy for provoking her into to stabbing him. because stabbing = kissy face apparently.


Yeah it is a circus. Wait until you get to part 2 where the kid is just bullying the other kid and the teacher basically tells the kid being bullied to ignore him lol.
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,109
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:00 am

So let's just write off that region. I mean, I guess if we're ok watching regions of our country fall into 3rd world status, then it's a solution.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,922
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby count2infinity on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:06 am

Crazy... I did two weeks in an inner city high school in Philly. Nothing like that video. I mean, there were instances of craziness, but not that crazy. It's incredible how some of these schools are. There's no real way to blame the teachers/administration/school board, there's no solution for this type of situation either until the community gets better. Sure, it's easy from a distance to say, "you know what they should really do is....blah blah blah blah". There's no solution other than making the community better and no one seems interested in doing that.
count2infinity
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,050
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Good night, sweet prince...

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:09 am

Troy Loney wrote:So let's just write off that region. I mean, I guess if we're ok watching regions of our country fall into 3rd world status, then it's a solution.


Sadly, places like South Chicago, East St. Louis, and the entire city of Detroit are probably best let well enough alone.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby count2infinity on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:14 am

It took me until a little into the movie to realize that this is a correctional type of high school. This is not the normal inner city high school, this one is specifically for those that can't handle themselves at a normal one. Makes much more sense watching this now. Those types of kids are EVERYWHERE. Not just inner city.
count2infinity
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,050
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Good night, sweet prince...

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:16 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:So let's just write off that region. I mean, I guess if we're ok watching regions of our country fall into 3rd world status, then it's a solution.


Sadly, places like South Chicago, East St. Louis, and the entire city of Detroit are probably best let well enough alone.


I think we'd both agree that any sort of solution requires heavy public investment. We'd disagree on the utility of that investment. I don't believe that the investment is necessary as a sort of humanitarian obligation, I just believe the cost of inaction is higher. Extended regions of lawlessness and dilapidating property.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,922
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:22 am

Troy Loney wrote:I just believe the cost of inaction is higher. Extended regions of lawlessness and dilapidating property.


Very fair statement.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 60,559
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:22 am

What investment do you make in a child who has spent their entire life believing there is no future?

The documentary Crips and Bloods - Made in America highlights a lot of it. These kids live a few miles from the Pacific Ocean never see it. Their entire life is spent in the same ghetto with crime all around and no parents to say "you're smarter than this, you're better than this, and if you follow your heart you will find a way out."

The girl I'm dating is doing some part time work at a behavioral therapist with autistic kids. One child she works with comes from a good family who actively participate in the treatment. The ones living in the slums don't seem to care at all - they encourage the behaviors that the tax payer funded treatment is seeking to correct. Those poor kids have no chance at all. What can you do about it?
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,757
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby count2infinity on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:26 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:What can you do about it?


money... it's all about money. no one wants to spend the money to do what's right by the kids and that is to remove them from that situation and put them in a better situation. that costs way too much and the parents of the kids, for whatever reason, likely would be selfish enough to keep the kids even if the option was given to them to put them in a better situation somewhere else.
count2infinity
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,050
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Good night, sweet prince...

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:31 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:What investment do you make in a child who has spent their entire life believing there is no future?

The documentary Crips and Bloods - Made in America highlights a lot of it. These kids live a few miles from the Pacific Ocean never see it. Their entire life is spent in the same ghetto with crime all around and no parents to say "you're smarter than this, you're better than this, and if you follow your heart you will find a way out."

The girl I'm dating is doing some part time work at a behavioral therapist with autistic kids. One child she works with comes from a good family who actively participate in the treatment. The ones living in the slums don't seem to care at all - they encourage the behaviors that the tax payer funded treatment is seeking to correct. Those poor kids have no chance at all. What can you do about it?



Long term community investments, public works projects. I think you have to devise a way to bring these people into society and not isolating the regions like an outbreak. These communities are not fit to function in the current labor market and you can't live off of the income from the low skill positions that those people are able to do. It's either the responsibilty of the government to try and bring those communities into the economy, or they just get further left out and become isolated third world territories.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,922
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:31 am

there's no clear solution, but changing our drug policy is a good start. we're sending people to jail and breaking up family units over mere possession of controlled substances. we're also labeling the majority of people that these kids know as "criminals" - which has to be completely alienating. why would they think there's any place for them in normal society if they just think their destiny is a jail cell? also, keeping people out of jail is going to free up money that could be spent on useful social services.

i'm not giving everyone a pass. violent criminals, dealers, etc...they still need to be dealt with. but this is a start.
shmenguin
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,067
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:34 am

Autism really worries me too.

I don't think I ever heard that word until the last 10 years or so. Looking back, there were a few kids I knew growing up that my mom said were "slow" that I know understand to mean they had a spectrum disorder.

The rate of children being born with autisim is really scary. How are we as a society going to support them as adults that can't support themselves and function in society?

I don't mean to suggest all autistic kids are going to up as unproductive, but I'd wager the ones from the families who don't do everything they can to help their development will.
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,757
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby the riddler on Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:57 pm

shmenguin wrote:there's no clear solution, but changing our drug policy is a good start. we're sending people to jail and breaking up family units over mere possession of controlled substances. we're also labeling the majority of people that these kids know as "criminals" - which has to be completely alienating. why would they think there's any place for them in normal society if they just think their destiny is a jail cell? also, keeping people out of jail is going to free up money that could be spent on useful social services.

i'm not giving everyone a pass. violent criminals, dealers, etc...they still need to be dealt with. but this is a start.


As cheesy as it sounds I think it all begins with the family or just a positive environment to live in. Most people take for granted just how lucky they were to grow up in a good situation. A lot of these kids don't have a chance. I don't know how you find a solution to that issue. I mean we could invest money in a lot of different things but I don't know if that's enough to solve all of the problems. You can't force someone to think going to college is important. That has to be ingrained in them by not only teachers but the people they're around everyday.
the riddler
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,436
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:20 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:09 pm

Its not even college - its just about learning, growing your mind, developing useful skills and knowledge, and trying to be a good citizen. If you want to fix cars, then fix cars. If you want to install build houses, then build houses. Just a desire to achieve something.

I have a friend who is a committed socialist that thinks the best solution to our countries problems would be forcing abortions on people who can't pass an intelligence test. He's dead serious.
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,757
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby count2infinity on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:12 pm

yup... it's about ambition to be something other than what they see around them. that's hard to do in these sorts of situations. It's really not fair to the kids, but I have yet to see a reasonable way to change it.... (forced abortions doesn't seem reasonable to me, unlike pittsoccer's friend)
count2infinity
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,050
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Good night, sweet prince...

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:18 pm

Its creative things too - how many great screen writers, guitarists, painters, product designers, inventors, and entreprenuers are we losing out on? So much human potential is destroyed its just disgusting.
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,757
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:36 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:He's dead serious.


that's not possible. if he's dead serious, he's probably one of the worst real-life human beings i've ever heard of.
shmenguin
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,067
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby count2infinity on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:38 pm

shmenguin wrote:
pittsoccer33 wrote:He's dead serious.


that's not possible. if he's dead serious, he's probably one of the worst real-life human beings i've ever heard of.


Hitler?
count2infinity
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,050
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Good night, sweet prince...

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:43 pm

count2infinity wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
pittsoccer33 wrote:He's dead serious.


that's not possible. if he's dead serious, he's probably one of the worst real-life human beings i've ever heard of.


Hitler?


well i didn't say he was the worst.
shmenguin
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,067
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby pensfan1989 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:20 pm

There pretty much is no solution for the inner city stuff that doesn't involve outright taking kids from the parents. I believe that a kid is going to succeed or fail at school based on what goes on at home far more that what happens in the school. You can have the best teacher in the world and if a student doesn't have the support structure at home they're not going to succeed at school.

My cousin had an interesting idea to try to combat this involving some sort of licensing process to have a kid, where you would basically have to prove you can financially provide for a kid. He might be onto something here, but generally speaking, the American public would never go for it. You see more than enough news stories about some girl in her 20s being a single mom with 4 or more kids, and there's no way those kids are being adequately provided for or supported.
pensfan1989
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,222
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: Ponakronkoski

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby columbia on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:24 pm

The cleaning lady at work is about to have her fourth kid and she's in her late 20s. If she has a husband, it's not obvious.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,889
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: دعنا نذهب طيور البطريق

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:50 pm

There is a book I read in the recent past called Promises I Can Keep, basically its about why unmarried single women without an education want/have several children.

The crux of it is that they have nothing in their lives - no ambition, no goals, no real sense of purpose. Having kids, despite how stressful and difficult raising them with no money is, is what gives their life meaning.

My jaw was dropped and my mind blown reading all of it.

The general idea of somehow "appoving" potential parents sounds very well intentioned, but what standards do you use? What exactly would disqualify someone? Are there waivers? And can you imagine when ideological politicans get involved?
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,757
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: LGP Education thread

Postby count2infinity on Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:49 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:VICE documentary on Chicago school that is for kids that would otherwise go to juvy. Honestly this situations is so bad that I wouldn't even waste money on educating these kids. Put them into work camps or something with a guaranteed wage and a trade education or something.

NSFW Language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-B_kmAebbQ


the third episode of this video just came up a couple hours ago.
count2infinity
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 25,050
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Good night, sweet prince...

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


e-mail