Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:47 pm

If he doesn't say f'ing coons what is he saying?

Or maybe "they" doctored the tape?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby doublem on Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:53 pm

he should have walked away.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:36 pm

"white Hispanic"
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:38 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370

The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the “capture” of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.

“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:40 pm

The race thing is completely irrelevant. Who cares.

I agree with doublem, he should have walked away. Why chase him to start with? That seems to be what started everything. Why bring a gun around with you? If you're doing a neighborhood stroll through a gated community where there have been previous break-ins but no violent crimes (is that correct?), why do you need a gun? So you can shoot someone who you suspect is doing wrong? Or did he really think that he was going to be attacked on his rounds?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby doublem on Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:46 pm

MWB wrote:The race thing is completely irrelevant. Who cares.

I agree with doublem, he should have walked away. Why chase him to start with? That seems to be what started everything. Why bring a gun around with you? If you're doing a neighborhood stroll through a gated community where there have been previous break-ins but no violent crimes (is that correct?), why do you need a gun? So you can shoot someone who you suspect is doing wrong? Or did he really think that he was going to be attacked on his rounds?


He seems like a psychopath.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:06 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:By all accounts, Zimmerman is a good guy who was looking out for his neighborhood.


By what accounts? His parents? He could be the world's biggest prick for all we know. Also, Martin's friends and family and teachers all say he was the nicest guy. When I look at their pictures, I know Zimmerman is the scary one and he is the one who went after the other guy.

Every single story I've read that had quotes from the people who live in that neighborhood have said that Zimmerman was a nice guy and that they had no reason to believe he was some sort of maniacal racist. The only remotely derogatory thing I've read was the one African-American resident who said that Zimmerman circulated a description of a someone suspected of something or other that was sufficiently vague that he (the person contributing the quote) might have matched it.

Sarcastic wrote:Sounds like he did. Google it. I tried to substitute different words but 'f'ing coons' sounds by far the most probable.

I did Google it and listened to it myself and read the opinion of audio experts. It is largely unclear what he did say, altho 'punks' is most likely given the spikes in the waveform. What is almost 100% certain is that he did not say 'coon'.

Sarcastic wrote:
1) From what I've heard, Zimmerman had a good 100 pounds on Martin.


That's an argument for Martin because this would enable Zimmerman to overpower him and get on top.

It most certainly is, that's my point.

Sarcastic wrote:
2) That story is talking about the immediate aftermath of the shooting; *bang*, Martin collapsed, Zimmerman stood over him, not rendering aid (which I don't think he would be required to do in that situation). It does not say the witness reported seeing Zimmerman on top during the struggle.


It says he was straddling Martin. That means he was sitting on top of him. It does not say that he was standing over him. Unless you think he shot him while standing, then sat on him in case he wasn't dead enough and wanted to get up.

"Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

"Straddle" can mean either standing or sitting, altho in this case I think Zimmerman probably adopted both postures at some stage. Regardless, the eyewitnesses are speaking of what was happening after the shooting, not of the struggle that preceded it.

However, the fundamental point remains - the picture that has been painted by eyewitness statements and the facts as they are known paint what I believe to be a dire picture for the way Sanford PD handled this. And it's looking increasingly worse for Zimmerman.

doublem wrote:He seems like a psychopath.

Wow..... that's....... a bit much.

Did the guy exercise poor judgement at several stages of that night? Absolutely, and now a teenage boy is dead because of it. But 'psychopath'??? Yikes.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:13 pm

Lol..."psychopath"
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:16 pm

psy·cho·path (sk-pth)
n.
A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:18 pm

And as we all know, Zimmerman has zero empathy or remorse for what happened
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:20 pm

From what I've read Zimmerman seems to be pretty crushed by this. (As he should.)
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:23 pm

vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.
1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.


He's the new Bernie Goetz.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Ron` on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Does florida have a crime problem, I though it's all sun, beach and mickey? Does living in a gated community provide safety or identify a target ($$$) for crime? I still stand by this is a media inflated story trying to make a race issue for effect.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Ron` wrote:Does florida have a crime problem, I though it's all sun, beach and mickey? Does living in a gated community provide safety or identify a target ($$$) for crime? I still stand by this is a media inflated story trying to make a race issue for effect.


Ignore the race issue. Should Zimmerman have gone after Martin after he called 911, or should he have left it to the proper authorities? He chose to go after someone he thought was doing wrong. Everything and anything that happened after that could have been avoided if he made a better initial choice.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:37 pm

Ron` wrote:Does florida have a crime problem, I though it's all sun, beach and mickey? Does living in a gated community provide safety or identify a target ($$$) for crime? I still stand by this is a media inflated story trying to make a race issue for effect.


Gated communities are very common there. I lived in a condo complex in Ft Myers for a few years and it was gated. I never felt safer by living there but I never felt threatened in the first place.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Ron` on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Done with this issue, still believe it is media hyped and fueled.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:47 pm

Factorial wrote:
vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.
1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.


He's the new Bernie Goetz.

You're joking, right? This is a wind up.

Goetz was a victim of more than one mugging in a time and place where street crime was badonkers out of control, and who shot five assailants with an unregistered gun and fled the scene before police arrived and remained at large for over a week.

Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch captain in a gated community across town from Disney World, and carrying a licensed firearm and exhibited total cooperation with local law enforcement. That what was asked of him by law enforcement was so spare is the problem here.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:50 pm

I was referring to them both being vigilantes not with the race issue. I think the race issue is the least of this case. MWB says it better than me.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby doublem on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:52 pm

what kind of person goes around chasing a kid? He isn't a cop, that's why we play people to do that type of thing.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:56 pm

doublem wrote:what kind of person goes around chasing a kid? He isn't a cop, that's why we play people to do that type of thing.


I don't know in FL. They have no state income tax so not sure what kind of police presence they have vs other states.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:57 pm

I don't have a problem that he followed Martin; heck, I've been in situations like that and I can't say that I behaved any differently.

But I do have a problem that Zimmerman confronted Martin. To me, that effectively takes almost all notion of self-defense off the table.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:58 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
That what was asked of him by law enforcement was so spare is the problem here.


Wasn't he asked by law enforcement to not go after Martin?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby doublem on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:58 pm

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/nation ... ion=recent

George Zimmerman was not following Neighborhood Watch ‘rules’
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:00 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I don't have a problem that he followed Martin; heck, I've been in situations like that and I can't say that I behaved any differently.

But I do have a problem that Zimmerman confronted Martin. To me, that effectively takes almost all notion of self-defense off the table.


That, I believe, is a key distinction. Following someone, seeing where they might be going, seeing what they are up to, would seem to fit the neighborhood watch profile. Confronting is a different matter.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:15 pm

The 911 operator said "We don't need you to do that, sir," or words to that effect. Regardless of what was specifically stated, 911 operators cannot issue any 'commands' that are binding upon the person on the other end of the phone.

Not making a comment in support of Zimmerman or anything, just pointing something out.
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