Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:58 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:If Zimmerman were black, this case doesn't even get heard and no one pays attention.

Isn't that the very definition of racism?


You don't mean 'doesn't get heard' to mean not heard in court, do you? I'll accept no one pays attention, but I think media has a duty to cover monumental rulings like this. We should hold them to a standard of integrity and eliminate the sensational nature of their coverage -- or reasonably ignore those that seek to sensationalize -- but they have a responsibility to report.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:00 am

We can argue the merits of racial profiling all day


I was responding to this statement. That is all...certainly not going to respond to any of thes profiling vs racial profiling points.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pittsoccer33 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:00 am

shafnutz05 wrote:You do understand that there is a difference between that, and a police department having a written policy authorizing more thorough stop and frisks for black men?


Which is basically what the Pittsburgh Zone 2 commander ordered. Their station sits in a zip code that is disproportionally African American. They aren't doing that in Zone 4 (Shadyside, Squirrel Hill). That's not right.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loc ... ed-306761/
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:01 am

Troy Loney wrote:
We can argue the merits of racial profiling all day


I was responding to this statement. That is all...certainly not going to respond to any of thes profiling vs racial profiling points.


I made that statement because I was asserting that it was a totally separate argument from what happened in this case, if that makes sense.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby columbia on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:03 am

This case seems like a poster child for someone NOT using profiling....unless there are people who believe that TM was intending to commit a crime.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pittsoccer33 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:05 am

columbia wrote:This case seems like a poster child for someone NOT using profiling....unless there are people who believe that TM was intending to commit a crime.


Like I said - I think there's a big difference between it happening at 7pm vs 3am. Was he cutting through yards? I can't remember.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:07 am

columbia wrote:This case seems like a poster child for someone NOT using profiling....unless there are people who believe that TM was intending to commit a crime.


But what about the Hispanic fella following people around in his car? With a gun, no less? :pop:

What about the 911 operator asking for the man's race? Should they not ask for it to be sensative to racial profiling? Should they have asked George Zimmerman's race to see if he was white, because that may indicate that he is a racist following a black guy around?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:13 am

Pitt87 wrote:
columbia wrote:This case seems like a poster child for someone NOT using profiling....unless there are people who believe that TM was intending to commit a crime.


But what about the Hispanic fella following people around in his car? With a gun, no less? :pop:

What about the 911 operator asking for the man's race? Should they not ask for it to be sensative to racial profiling? Should they have asked George Zimmerman's race to see if he was white, because that may indicate that he is a racist following a black guy around?


Wait....so you're satisfied with the outcome of GZ's pursuit of TM?

I mean, I guess i'm just truly baffled by some of the posts in this thread.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:14 am

pfim wrote:
...The coverage is based on the race angle...


That's my point exactly.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand"

It's time to put all of this racial bias (The Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al) aside. Quit living in the 19th century and move forward.

With the news now that Eric Holder and the D.o.J. are considering bringing charges, the fact that this is all about fanning racial tensions, should be crystal clear.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shoeshine boy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:15 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:
Like I said - I think there's a big difference between it happening at 7pm vs 3am. Was he cutting through yards? I can't remember.


pretty sure they said he was cutting between houses. I live in a townhouse neighborhood too and believe me, when people are wandering around between and behind houses I get suspicious too.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:18 am

The media is continuing to blast Zimmerman as some kind of racist monster. It's amazing, really. Especially in light of the article c2i posted, and the fact that the FBI failed to find any proof that he was racist in any way.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:24 am

Yeah, he may be an ahole, but I don't know of any proof that he was/is a racist.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby count2infinity on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:25 am

newarenanow wrote:Yeah, he may be an ahole, but I don't know of any proof that he was/is a racist.


Take shad for instance... he's not racist, he just hates ALL people equally.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:26 am

Troy Loney wrote:Wait....so you're satisfied with the outcome of GZ's pursuit of TM?


:face:

What's up with that? I haven't sen one person here on LGP even come close to saying/implying that TM deserved to die.

Please, leave the inflammatory stuff to those other boards.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:29 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Wait....so you're satisfied with the outcome of GZ's pursuit of TM?


:face:

What's up with that? I haven't sen one person here on LGP even come close to saying/implying that TM deserved to die.

Please, leave the inflammatory stuff to those other boards.


GZ's profiling of TM led directly to the altercation and the eventual death of TM. To argue against the point being made that this is a case against profiling, would seem to me to imply that what happened is ok.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pfim on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:30 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
pfim wrote:
...The coverage is based on the race angle...


That's my point exactly.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand"

It's time to put all of this racial bias (The Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al) aside. Quit living in the 19th century and move forward.

With the news now that Eric Holder and the D.o.J. are considering bringing charges, the fact that this is all about fanning racial tensions, should be crystal clear.


I think our society as a whole is beyond what the media portrays. Perhaps I'm being naive...The media is pandering to the lowest common denominator, which is something they constantly do. Certainly, we're not all on the same plane but how the media portrays these high profile incidents is incendiary and disingenuous, and can erroneously guide our elected leaders.

For instance, from all accounts there has been no violence or unruly behavior since the verdict was read. Then you go to the front page of cnn.com, see a black man seemingly screaming at a police officer. Why?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby topshelf on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:30 am

shoeshine boy wrote:I live in a townhouse neighborhood too and believe me, when people are wandering around between and behind houses I get suspicious too.


I think we all would, but would you be suspicious or "grab you gun and follow the guy" suspicious?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pittsoccer33 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:31 am

Troy and I live in the city where walking places and cutting through alleys is normal. The borders between the "nice" areas and the "bad" ones don't really exist in some places.

I think where I agree with Troy's sentiment is that many "suburban" folk are - I don't know think this is the right word - "afraid" of young black men.

They'll never say they are afraid. They certainly will never cop to their attitude being racially motivated. If you confronted them about it they might say their favorite coworker is black or that they voted for Obama. The idea of a black family moving in next to them wouldn't bother them at all. But the family's 16 year old son shooting hoops in the driveway with some of his black friends probably would.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shoeshine boy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:32 am

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Froggy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:34 am

On the flip side of that, it's not racist at all to say that i wouldn't want to walk around west Baltimore after dark. I don't care how progressive you are... It becomes naive at a certain point.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shoeshine boy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:36 am

topshelf wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:I live in a townhouse neighborhood too and believe me, when people are wandering around between and behind houses I get suspicious too.


I think we all would, but would you be suspicious or "grab you gun and follow the guy" suspicious?


well I don't own a gun so that's kind of moot for me. since I'm female (most folks here don't know or realize that due to my username) I wouldn't be following any guy I deemed to be "shady". since I'm not a wannabe cop I wouldn't be following them with or without a gun. usually I make note of them and if I were to see anything else I would simply call 911.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:39 am

topshelf wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:I live in a townhouse neighborhood too and believe me, when people are wandering around between and behind houses I get suspicious too.


I think we all would, but would you be suspicious or "grab you gun and follow the guy" suspicious?


Hey, as long as he's not coming to my house, he can rob every other place in the neighborhood. I'll even point out which houses have a weeks worth of newspapers stacked at the front door, have no alarm systems, are against owning firearms, or are elderly and infirm.

I'm not my brothers keeper and if I get involved maybe I end up getting arrested and dragged onto the national stage.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Spoiler:
NOT

Come near my neighborhood and act like a suspicious gangsta wanna-be and I guarantee you'll find trouble.

Not from me, but from the half dozen or so NYC cops who live in a 2x2 Block radius.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:40 am

shafnutz05 wrote:The media is continuing to blast Zimmerman as some kind of racist monster. It's amazing, really. Especially in light of the article c2i posted, and the fact that the FBI failed to find any proof that he was racist in any way.


Who is making him out this way? I haven't paid extremely close attention to the coverage, but haven't really seen this outside the Facebook/Twitter fringe.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby topshelf on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:41 am

shoeshine boy wrote:
topshelf wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:I live in a townhouse neighborhood too and believe me, when people are wandering around between and behind houses I get suspicious too.


I think we all would, but would you be suspicious or "grab you gun and follow the guy" suspicious?


well I don't own a gun so that's kind of moot for me. since I'm female (most folks here don't know or realize that due to my username) I wouldn't be following any guy I deemed to be "shady". since I'm not a wannabe cop I wouldn't be following them with or without a gun. usually I make note of them and if I were to see anything else I would simply call 911.


Right, just like 99% of all normal people in the world.

Zimmerman hasn't done anything to reveal that he racially profiled Martin, but it should be overwhelmingly obvious that he profiled Martin, and falsely profiled him at that. In my opinion, that doesn't make him a racist, but it does make him a hothead and an unstable individual. He is part of that 1% that would grab their gun and follow people. There's something wrong there.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby topshelf on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:44 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
topshelf wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:I live in a townhouse neighborhood too and believe me, when people are wandering around between and behind houses I get suspicious too.


I think we all would, but would you be suspicious or "grab you gun and follow the guy" suspicious?


Hey, as long as he's not coming to my house, he can rob every other place in the neighborhood. I'll even point out which houses have a weeks worth of newspapers stacked at the front door, have no alarm systems, are against owning firearms, or are elderly and infirm.

I'm not my brothers keeper and if I get involved maybe I end up getting arrested and dragged onto the national stage.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Spoiler:
NOT

Come near my neighborhood and act like a suspicious gangsta wanna-be and I guarantee you'll find trouble.

Not from me, but from the half dozen or so NYC cops who live in a 2x2 Block radius.


Your sarcasm contradicts itself. The first part makes it sound like not following him with a gun is allowing him to break into your neighbor's houses, and then your spoiler states that surrounding cops will take care of him, which is still you not following him with a gun. I'm not sure what message you are trying to convey.

The irony is your spoiler is exactly how the situation should be handled: by the cops, not some hothead with a gun.
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