Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:12 am

columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Of course not. Please don't act so superior.

The point that is being made is that ALL forms of racial discrimination are wrong. Including those who want to make this case somehow a justification for further racial disharmony.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:48 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Of course not. Please don't act so superior.

The point that is being made is that ALL forms of racial discrimination are wrong. Including those who want to make this case somehow a justification for further racial disharmony.


That's not empathy, and I don't think that is what columbia is saying. I also don't know where anyone is justifying racial disharmony.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:54 am

I also find it odd that some people who were so upset about how the media portrayed Martin and Zimmerman are now easily accepting how the media had portrayed Obama's comments.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:11 am

MWB wrote:I also find it odd that some people who were so upset about how the media portrayed Martin and Zimmerman are now easily accepting how the media had portrayed Obama's comments.


Meh, we can play that game all day long and come up with 1,000 "like" media examples and say why aren't you upset about this then. The Travon Martin case in itself is on its own level, it's the new standard. It's not comparable even to something small related to the case.

I agree about taking things out of context but Obama did this to himself with his entire shtick long before this quote even happened. and for such a camera driven presidency he shouldn't have gone down that path.

I for one get what you are saying but not really upset about how they handled his quotes in a sense because that's how they have handled the entire case, it's more a snapshot of the media in is case not a separate issue.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:51 am

I think our president is allowed to be a little more candid now that the trial is over. We want a leader with opinions, after all. So I don't have nearly as much beef with this as I do him influencing the process before the facts came out.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:44 pm

I think it would have been more awkward he hadn't said anything. He is the first black president, and there is an active national discussion about race and perception.

Now, where I think things have gotten completely out of hand is the fact that the Zimmerman case is what prompted that discussion. So many things to pick from, and the line in the sand is drawn over a guy who, by all outward appearances, was extremely empathetic to the African American community. And for that, I thank you Big Media for fabricating a story that frankly didn't - and still doesn't, imo - exist.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:47 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Empathy for knowing what it's like to walk through a public area on your way home and have someone call the police on you.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:08 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Empathy for knowing what it's like to walk through a public area on your way home and have someone call the police on you.

Absolutely.

And you didn't bring race into it which is the appropriate response.

I get being 17 and being enamored of being the angry young man who feels like he's being judged unfairly. I don't get being physically confrontational over it. Especially after you've created separation.

More so, the protesters and public outcry, bringing racial overtones to the matter, is not constructive in any way and only fans the flames of racial tension.

I have a particular disdain for those who jump on the bandwagon to show how unbiased and superior they are, they're only serving to make matters worse.

( I also want to take a minute out here to apologize to Columbia, my response to him last night was pointed and uncalled for )
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:38 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Empathy for knowing what it's like to walk through a public area on your way home and have someone call the police on you.

Absolutely.

And you didn't bring race into it which is the appropriate response.

*sigh*

I really didn't think I needed to expressly say, "Empathy for knowing what it's like to walk through a public area on your way home and have someone call the police on you.... for no other reason than you're a black teenager."
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:04 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Empathy for knowing what it's like to walk through a public area on your way home and have someone call the police on you.

Absolutely.

And you didn't bring race into it which is the appropriate response.

*sigh*

I really didn't think I needed to expressly say, "Empathy for knowing what it's like to walk through a public area on your way home and have someone call the police on you.... for no other reason than you're a black teenager."

For no other reason than you resemble the individuals who have been reported as burglarizing the neighborhood.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:49 pm

Can we rename the thread "President Reignites Racial Questions" since he's the biggest a-hole making this about race?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Kaizer on Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:15 pm

:face:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:27 pm

I found it a bit awkward hearing the President mention George Zimmerman by name and discuss the outcome of him hypothetically being shot.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Hockeynut! on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:20 pm

Kaizer wrote::face:

:thumb:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Dickie Dunn on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:51 pm

Obama is a troll.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Grunthy on Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:32 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:Obama is a troll.



Image :scared:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Pitt87 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:55 pm

shmenguin wrote:I think our president is allowed to be a little more candid now that the trial is over. We want a leader with opinions, after all. So I don't have nearly as much beef with this as I do him influencing the process before the facts came out.


I think it was actually one of the more apolitical moments Barack Obama has had as President. Very genuine, and obviously based on his personal experience as opposed to a strategy. I wish we had more of that, as opposed to the double talk and heavy-handedness we usually get from him.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:01 pm

A leader is suppose to build consensus not promote divisiveness.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:34 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:For no other reason than you resemble the individuals who have been reported as burglarizing the neighborhood.

Except Zimmermna never said that. Not once in the three official communications he had with the police that were memorialized - the 911 call, his written statement, and the video walkthrough - does GZ ever say "...and he matches the description of the suspects in the neighborhood break-ins".

Although, it must also be acknowledged that when GZ placed the NEN call he couldn't definitively state TMs race. When prompted, he said, "He looks black." It wasn't until several moments later in the call that he conclusively IDs TM as black. He was profiling, but not because of race. He was profiling suspicious behavior; never mentioned the description of the break in suspects.

I'm not disagreeing with the broader point that GZ is not a racist, which is why I think it's such a shame that he's become the poster child for what I think is a very valid debate about race relations. But I think the line of argument you're taking is not correct.

ExPatriatePen wrote:A leader is suppose to build consensus not promote divisiveness.

There is not a single thing this president could say that would inspire in some the will to follow.

He could end his problems in about three minutes by proclaiming that breathing was the greatest thing in the world. Republicans would hold their breath en masse in protest and die of anoxia.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:55 am

MWB wrote:I also find it odd that some people who were so upset about how the media portrayed Martin and Zimmerman are now easily accepting how the media had portrayed Obama's comments.



You don't honestly think that's odd do you?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:09 am

tifosi77 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:For no other reason than you resemble the individuals who have been reported as burglarizing the neighborhood.

Except Zimmermna never said that. Not once in the three official communications he had with the police that were memorialized - the 911 call, his written statement, and the video walkthrough - does GZ ever say "...and he matches the description of the suspects in the neighborhood break-ins".

Although, it must also be acknowledged that when GZ placed the NEN call he couldn't definitively state TMs race. When prompted, he said, "He looks black." It wasn't until several moments later in the call that he conclusively IDs TM as black. He was profiling, but not because of race. He was profiling suspicious behavior; never mentioned the description of the break in suspects.

I'm not disagreeing with the broader point that GZ is not a racist, which is why I think it's such a shame that he's become the poster child for what I think is a very valid debate about race relations. But I think the line of argument you're taking is not correct.

Wait, because he didn't explicitly state that "...and he matches the description of the suspects in the neighborhood break-ins", that means he couldn't possibly have been looking for people who matched the description?
Huh?
He was performing the neighborhood watch function because of a series of 8+ burglaries, you don't think he was on the lookout for individuals who matched the description of those burglars? Come on tif, i understand you want to debate with me, but you're too smart to make that assertion.

tifosi77 wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:A leader is suppose to build consensus not promote divisiveness.

There is not a single thing this president could say that would inspire in some the will to follow.

He could end his problems in about three minutes by proclaiming that breathing was the greatest thing in the world. Republicans would hold their breath en masse in protest and die of anoxia.


Consensus doesn't mean unanimous support/approval. And just because a president has detractors, doesn't mean he should be promoting divisiveness.

There's no excuse for that.

Every president has detractors... Obama apologists need to get over it.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:47 pm

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pressure=9Pa on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:08 pm

MWB wrote:I also find it odd that some people who were so upset about how the media portrayed Martin and Zimmerman are now easily accepting how the media had portrayed Obama's comments.


This was my thought after reading Obama's enitre statement as well. I'm of belief that the media has been an embarassment throughout this case, and I would have guessed that now it would have passed. The scale is obviously different, but the headline writers are being just as unfair to Obama as they were to Zimmerman.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Shyster on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:27 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
columbia wrote:It's about the ability to understand the experience of others, aka empathy.
As has been pointed out (and admitted) in this general forum, some lack that.


Empathy? Are you saying that there are posters on this thread who don't feel for the Martin family? Who aren't saddened that a young 17 year olds life was cut short? Who think that *any* form of racial discrination is wrong?

Of course not. Please don't act so superior.

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:44 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Wait, because he didn't explicitly state that "...and he matches the description of the suspects in the neighborhood break-ins", that means he couldn't possibly have been looking for people who matched the description?
Huh?
He was performing the neighborhood watch function because of a series of 8+ burglaries, you don't think he was on the lookout for individuals who matched the description of those burglars? Come on tif, i understand you want to debate with me, but you're too smart to make that assertion.

Put yourself in his shoes. You make the call to the police, you mention the series of break ins but you don't mention the guy you're following matches the description that's been given of 'people of interest' in those break ins?

I'm arguing in favor of Zimmerman on this point.

ExPatriatePen wrote:Consensus doesn't mean unanimous support/approval. And just because a president has detractors, doesn't mean he should be promoting divisiveness.

There's no excuse for that.

Every president has detractors... Obama apologists need to get over it.

No one's talking about unanimity or even apologizing for the guy; I didn't vote for him, and think he's generally done a poor job in office. But there are far too many people who find his very presence at 1600 Penn 'divisive', too many people for whom every single point of disagreement with him to be cause for earth shattering outrage. And then blame him for it.

Meh, this is fodder for the PDT.
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