Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

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Re: Police Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby roland on Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:33 pm

NeddieVedder wrote:
roland wrote:foolish act.


It is rather foolish to murder someone.


I was simply trying to imply that by following, confronting, scuffling, _____________ someone gets shot, is foolish.

It would be different if he said "I can't stand you N-words coming into MY neighborhood causing problems and damaging my proper-tie, EAT HOT LEAD N-WORD BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

Too many unknowns to say it was a hate crime. Zimmerman sounds like a fool with a gun.
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Re: Police Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby NeddieVedder on Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:39 pm

roland wrote:
NeddieVedder wrote:
roland wrote:foolish act.


It is rather foolish to murder someone.


I was simply trying to imply that by following, confronting, scuffling, _____________ someone gets shot, is foolish.

It would be different if he said "I can't stand you N-words coming into MY neighborhood causing problems and damaging my proper-tie, EAT HOT LEAD N-WORD BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

Too many unknowns to say it was a hate crime. Zimmerman sounds like a fool with a gun.


Gotcha. Sorry, I was unnecessarily glib.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:40 pm

I am not arguing it's a hate crime.

I'm arguing that a guy's racial predispositions led someone to erroneously conclude that a kid was a danger and ultimately led to the youth's death. It's also curious that the guy is not charged with anything.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:52 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I am not arguing it's a hate crime.

I'm arguing that a guy's racial predispositions led someone to erroneously conclude that a kid was a danger and ultimately led to the youth's death. It's also curious that the guy is not charged with anything.


If the black teenager shoots a older white man in the hood does he not get charged?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:02 am

Not sure why this is making the news and Al Sharpton is flying in. It's minority on minority crime, thought the main stream media doesn't care about that?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby bh on Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:43 am

This Zimmerman guy sounds like a nutcase and should be locked away. It tears me up that this is a kid we're talking about not an adult.
It's hard to say what he was thinking. He may be a racist, but he also may just be an generally unstable human being. It's hard to say with what has been presented so far. You'd almost have to know him personally to know if he had a history of making racist comments, etc. This all doesn't matter however. This guy seems to have killed an unarmed kid and thus deserves to be charged and tried for murder.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:51 am

I can't see it as a racial issue, its just a stupidity issue. Its a shame the person acting stupid is the one who is still alive.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:07 am

Al Sharpton is the worst kind of person in America. On the same level as Glenn Beck et al. I'm sure he'd be a lot more quiet/less likely to protest if it was a black Jew though :pop:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:25 am

shafnutz05 wrote:Al Sharpton is the worst kind of person in America. On the same level as Glenn Beck et al. I'm sure he'd be a lot more quiet/less likely to protest if it was a black Jew though :pop:

Shaprton and Jackson perpetuate racial issues because they make $$$$$$$$$$$$$ from Race.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:25 am

Factorial wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I am not arguing it's a hate crime.

I'm arguing that a guy's racial predispositions led someone to erroneously conclude that a kid was a danger and ultimately led to the youth's death. It's also curious that the guy is not charged with anything.


If the black teenager shoots a older white man in the hood does he not get charged?

He would be charged. Are you serious?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:43 am

I just tried to have a discussion about this on FB. The initial post was "I'm sick of all the racism in the country" (edited to correct mounds of grammatical errors). During the conversation I mentioned that Zimmerman is Hispanic. The OPs response was, "Zimmerman doesn't sound Hispanic. It sounds Jewish to me." (again edited for grammar). Isn't that racist?

I don't think it is but if you are going to argue race then don't stereotype other people's names.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:51 am

PFIDC, are you suggesting that the reporting of the story and implying there are racial undertones are "racist" or are you agreeing with the author's implication and lashing out at Zimmerman/similar people?

Because it raises a distinct point: Would everyone turning color blind fix the problem (I assume we all agree there's a problem)? I'm not sure if it would go away.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:54 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I just tried to have a discussion about this on FB. The initial post was "I'm sick of all the racism in the country" (edited to correct mounds of grammatical errors). During the conversation I mentioned that Zimmerman is Hispanic. The OPs response was, "Zimmerman doesn't sound Hispanic. It sounds Jewish to me." (again edited for grammar). Isn't that racist?

I don't think it is but if you are going to argue race then don't stereotype other people's names.



Seems pretty prejudice.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pfim on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:08 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I just tried to have a discussion about this on FB. The initial post was "I'm sick of all the racism in the country" (edited to correct mounds of grammatical errors). During the conversation I mentioned that Zimmerman is Hispanic. The OPs response was, "Zimmerman doesn't sound Hispanic. It sounds Jewish to me." (again edited for grammar). Isn't that racist?

I don't think it is but if you are going to argue race then don't stereotype other people's names.


Seems dumb to assume. I don't know about racist.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:09 am

Juan Epstein
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:15 am

TheHammer24 wrote:PFIDC, are you suggesting that the reporting of the story and implying there are racial undertones are "racist" or are you agreeing with the author's implication and lashing out at Zimmerman/similar people?

Because it raises a distinct point: Would everyone turning color blind fix the problem (I assume we all agree there's a problem)? I'm not sure if it would go away.


Not sure I understand. The gentleman who started the thread started it with the simple statement of "Sick of all the racism in this country". I asked him for examples and I got a bunch of unchecked statistics about how 90% of all inmates are black and that if I go to a court room I will only see black people on trial. It was only after that that he mentioned the Zimmerman case and how it's just another white man killing a black man and getting away with it. I informed him that Zimmerman is Hispanic and his response was that he isn't Hispanic because his last name is Zimmerman and that means he is Jewish. Also that Hispanics and blacks get along better than Jews and blacks so he couldn't be Hispanic and had to be Jewish.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 am

Oh. I thought you started the thread. Nevermind, then, the point is moot.

I come out on the liberal side of social issues, but there are boneheads on each side of the issue that do more harm than good with their opinions. This appears to be one of them.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:31 am

Are there any African-Americans living in this gated community?
If the answer is no, it's naive to just brush aside the issue of skin color.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby pfim on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:39 am

Aside from the obvious which has already been discussed...

I just don't get why a gated community would allow some dude to cruise around with a gun playing cop. I'd move if I knew that.
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Re: Police Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

To me this doesn't seem like a case of racism as much as it is prejudice. That may seem like I'm parsing words, but it really is a big difference, imo.

The guy was the only volunteer to do the neighborhood watch in this (gated) community, wanted to be a cop, had called 911 something like 50 times in the last calendar year, and had actually reported a burglary that resulted in an arrest.

Zimmerman fancied himself the Protector against 'punks' (which is CLEARLY what he says on the 911 tape, not the slur he's been accused of flinging) in his neighborhood. Martin was a 'punk' in his eyes, and therefore clearly worthy of a presumption of guilt. Cos that's how his world works, Skittles and iced tea be damned.

newarenanow wrote:I think the whole racial thing coming in is the cops not arresting this guy.

I agree, that seems more like it. No arrest, no toxicology testing, no impounding of the guy's car, the police detective who interviewed him was a narc not a homicide investigator........ this whole case is just one giant fustercluck for this little podunk PD.

PensFanInDC wrote:The OPs response was, "Zimmerman doesn't sound Hispanic. It sounds Jewish to me." (again edited for grammar). Isn't that racist?

Would it be racist if it were "Hernandez..... that sounds Mexican to me."

Zimmerman is German for "carpenter" and is a very common surname amongst people of that parentage, Jews and Gentiles alike.

PensFanInDC wrote:.... he isn't Hispanic because his last name is Zimmerman and that means he is Jewish.

Haha..... presumably this friend has yet to see a photo of George Zimmerman. (btw, the mug shot photo of Zimmerman that is circulating stems from a 2005 arrest apparently for battery of a police office when he intervened during a friend's arrest.)

PensFanInDC wrote:Also that Hispanics and blacks get along better than Jews and blacks so he couldn't be Hispanic and had to be Jewish.

Tell your friend to move to Koreatown/Rampart here in L.A. for a while and we can revisit that opinion in a year or so. :wink:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:01 pm

columbia wrote:Are there any African-Americans living in this gated community?
If the answer is no, it's naive to just brush aside the issue of skin color.

The victim was visiting his father's fiancee's house.

One African American resident, Ibrahim Rashada, told the (Miami) Herald that Zimmerman seemed friendly and helpful, but Zimmerman also circulated a description of a suspect that pulled Rashada up short. "I fit the stereotype he emailed around," Rashada said. That realization led Rashada to drive downtown whenever he wants to take a walk and stretch his legs. "I don’t want anyone chasing me," he said.


Posted to share the existence of African-Americans in that neighborhood, not to assert any support for the notion that a (often necessarily) vague character description is ipso facto proof of racism. Seriously..... "Suspect is a white male, standing between 5'10" and 6'1", weighing 180-210 pounds, between the ages 30 and 45, with salt & pepper hair" does not mean I need to live in mortal fear of the racist submitting that report. Geez, just last week I called the po-po to report a guy Dumpster diving on my street (illegal in Cali, and he wasn't going for recyclables but was rooting through trash bins) and the report was accurate enough, but also so vague that it could have been any one of a couple thousand guys within 5 miles of my house that night. That's just the nature of things, and it does not mean that such descriptions are 'stereotypes' as stated in the quoted bit.

pfim wrote:I just don't get why a gated community would allow some dude to cruise around with a gun playing cop. I'd move if I knew that.

Oh, I think it's entirely possible the community had no idea he was walking around armed. Florida is a 'shall issue' state, meaning that if you meet their requirements that will issue a carry a concealed weapon permit (CCW), and those requirements are not out-of-this world difficult to meet as they are here in California. Open carry in F-L-A is only legal if you are on your way to target shooting and a couple other niche 'outdoorsy' type activities.

That said, there has been no talk (of which I am aware) of the legal status of Mr. Zimmerman to own and carry a firearm, either openly or concealed.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Guinness on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:10 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:PFIDC, are you suggesting that the reporting of the story and implying there are racial undertones are "racist" or are you agreeing with the author's implication and lashing out at Zimmerman/similar people?

Because it raises a distinct point: Would everyone turning color blind fix the problem (I assume we all agree there's a problem)? I'm not sure if it would go away.


Not sure I understand. The gentleman who started the thread started it with the simple statement of "Sick of all the racism in this country". I asked him for examples and I got a bunch of unchecked statistics about how 90% of all inmates are black and that if I go to a court room I will only see black people on trial. It was only after that that he mentioned the Zimmerman case and how it's just another white man killing a black man and getting away with it. I informed him that Zimmerman is Hispanic and his response was that he isn't Hispanic because his last name is Zimmerman and that means he is Jewish. Also that Hispanics and blacks get along better than Jews and blacks so he couldn't be Hispanic and had to be Jewish.


How did you manage to not have an anyeurism?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Gaucho on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:16 pm

Bob Dylan is a Jewish carpenter from Puerto Rico?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:22 pm

Gaucho wrote:Bob Dylan is a Jewish carpenter from Puerto Rico?


50 years ago yesterday...
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:24 pm

Gaucho wrote:Bob Dylan is a Jewish carpenter from Puerto Rico?


That was Jesus.
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