Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby bhaw on Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:48 am

I don't think there is equivalencies. You're either using racist words or you aren't (assuming the context is intended to belittle, insult, etc). Trying to determine which one is "worse" is silly. If you are being a racist idiot and using a derogatory term towards someone, you don't have the right to get offended if someone uses one back (although, as I mentioned, the people who do that WILL get offended). It doesn't justify the person that used it back. I'm just saying that if I'm a 3rd party, I'm not feeling bad for you if you get offended by it. You are an equal idiot to the person who threw a slur back at you.

Not sure if that answers your question, but I don't think I understand what you are asking.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shmenguin on Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:45 am

there is no meaningful derogatory word towards Christians. Just like there is no meaningful derogatory word towards white people. I guess that's what I was getting at. Subtract alcohol from last night's equation and it would have been clearer I suppose. But that's why some words are "worse" than others
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R e: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Eismann on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:45 am

shmenguin wrote:there is no meaningful derogatory word towards Christians. Just like there is no meaningful derogatory word towards white people. I guess that's what I was getting at. Subtract alcohol from last night's equation and it would have been clearer I suppose. But that's why some words are "worse" than others


Incorrect. "God squadder" and "Jesus freak" to name just two are total attack tools that put down people because of their beliefs.

That is total bigotry and intolerance, but most are scared to admit it.

Incidentally, there's a great hypocrisy in there too that pits racial PC fear against its users. People will only attack white Christians with those words, since they're terrified of being labeled racists if they tried to apply the same terms to, say, black Baptists who say "Praise Jesus!" a lot. Those instances are ignored.

And if someone wants to use whatever term to put me down because of my white skin, the intent is what matters. And "cracker", "ghost", "white boy", "white bread" have been used to hurt for a long time.

Acknowledge that it's all wrong, and strive towards harmony.

Look for justification to continue deeming this behavior selectively acceptable, and strive for more division.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shmenguin on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:54 am

People aren't called Jesus freak or whatever simply because they're Christian. They're called that because there is a perceived eccentricity in their personality. That's different than how terms towards Jewish people, black people, gay, Hispanic, etc. have been used. But we've been over this in the C word debate.

And if your feelings have been genuinely hurt by being called white boy, then I don't know what to say...you have an unusual perspective.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Eismann on Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:09 am

shmenguin wrote:People aren't called Jesus freak or whatever simply because they're Christian. They're called that because there is a perceived eccentricity in their personality. That's different than how terms towards Jewish people, black people, gay, Hispanic, etc. have been used. But we've been over this in the C word debate.

And if your feelings have been genuinely hurt by being called white boy, then I don't know what to say...you have an unusual perspective.


This is about recognizing and acknowledging bad bevior. It would be easy to say that nwording is just describing a perceived eccentricity. That just makes things worse.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby columbia on Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:22 am

The Secret History Of The Word 'Cracker'

Ste. Claire pointed me to , published sometime in the 1590s. One character refers to another as a craker — a common insult for an obnoxious bloviator.

What craker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath?

"It's a beautiful quote, but it was a character trait that was used to describe a group of Celtic immigrants — Scots-Irish people who came to the Americas who were running from political circumstances in the old world," Ste. Claire said. Those Scots-Irish folks started settling the Carolinas, and later moved deeper South and into Florida and Georgia.

But the disparaging term followed these immigrants, who were thought by local officials to be unruly and ill-mannered.

"In official documents, the governor of Florida said, 'We don't know what to do with these crackers — we tell them to settle this area and they don't; we tell them not to settle this area and they do," Ste. Claire said. "They lived off the land. They were rogues."


http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/201 ... n-crackers

As someone of long standing southern heritage and Scotch-Irish descent....I guess I'm a cracker. :wink:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:39 am

I always found calling a white "cracker" or "honkey" to be comical. The n word for blacks not so much. To compare the two ignores the last 300 years of history.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby count2infinity on Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:40 am

lol, i can't believe this conversation is still going on.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby count2infinity on Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:58 am

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:02 am

Hahaha I was thinking about that bit. Mulaney is hilarious.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shoeshine boy on Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:19 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:
I know you are just sharing it, but what a load of trash.

This court case was brought for one reason - to stoke racial tension. The evidence is non existent, the "star witnesses" contradict themselves minutes after taking the stand. When one main witness bases her idea of who she thought was the "bigger of the two men" on the laughable child photos spread by the media - and actually admits that in court, the trial has become a joke.

This is embarassing, and to know that the only reason it was brought forth is due to the racial overtones is disgusting, especially when people (like the author of the article above) still describe Zimmerman as a white.



I'm starting to agree with you. keep in mind that I'm someone who didn't know much about this case before the trial. I knew a black teenager was dead. I knew a white or hispanic guy shot him claiming self defense and that's about it. really I probably should've been on that jury.
having watched about 75% of this trial so far my first thought is, "why the hell did they bring this to trial??" but living in the South I know exactly why it went to trial. most of these prosecution witnesses are actually helping the defense's case if by nothing else, establishing reasonable doubt. I actually feel bad for the prosecuting attorney. it'd be a shame if they fire him for losing what right now looks like an un-winnable case.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby count2infinity on Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:22 am

the prosecuting attorney is an elected official or something like that isn't he? I thought for some reason defense attorneys were the ones for hire. someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shoeshine boy on Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:25 am

count2infinity wrote:the prosecuting attorney is an elected official or something like that isn't he? I thought for some reason defense attorneys were the ones for hire. someone correct me if I'm wrong here.


I couldn't say for sure. where I live the District Attorney is elected but he also very rarely actually tries cases. my reference to firing was IF the prosecutor is something like an assistant DA (think Jack McCoy in the mid 90's on Law and Order) and is therefore an employee of the government.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby columbia on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:48 pm

Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Criminally Indicted By Citizens' Grand Jury For Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant And Complaint
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/prne ... 02/CL41488
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:50 pm

I have never seen the prosecution call so many witnesses that support the defense and then is forced to try to discredit them on re-direct like this case is doing again and again and again. Besides the girl friend who is clearly biased in why she wants to think happened has anone else not cast huge shades of reasonable doubt on this being murder or even manslaughter?

It's like they also don't know key aspects of self defense law. Zimmerman doesn't need to have any injuries to justify deadly force. If a reasonable person would reasonably fear they could suffer great bodily harm or death it's justified. Having someone straddled over you appearing ready to give you a beating is enough.

This should never have went to trial.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:54 pm

columbia wrote:Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Criminally Indicted By Citizens' Grand Jury For Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant And Complaint
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/prne ... 02/CL41488


As much as this case disgusts me, PLEASE visit this website with your speakers up :lol:

http://www.citizensgrandjury.com/
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:56 pm

you just get the feeling that the whole national powder keg is gonna blow after this one.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:00 pm

Froggy wrote:you just get the feeling that the whole national powder keg is gonna blow after this one.


If you have mass rioting in the streets after the inevitable "not guilty" verdict is announced, you can't blame the justice system, the police, Trayvon Martin, or George Zimmerman. There are a lot of people who are just looking for an excuse to loot, destroy, assault, etc.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:02 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
Froggy wrote:you just get the feeling that the whole national powder keg is gonna blow after this one.


If you have mass rioting in the streets after the inevitable "not guilty" verdict is announced, you can't blame the justice system, the police, Trayvon Martin, or George Zimmerman. There are a lot of people who are just looking for an excuse to loot, destroy, assault, etc.


yep. and those "us vs them" tendencies have been grossly nurtured the last half dozen years or so...
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Yeah...I'm honestly thankful that I am living where I am now, and not still relatively close to Philly. The "flash mob" (read: gang attacks) stuff has seemingly gotten much worse over the last five years or so. Hopefully it's not a Rodney King redux.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Froggy wrote:you just get the feeling that the whole national powder keg is gonna blow after this one.


It's OJ all over again. (with respect to the division along racial lines)

I'd hope inner city police departments everywhere are training for this eventuality NOW.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:11 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah...I'm honestly thankful that I am living where I am now, and not still relatively close to Philly. The "flash mob" (read: gang attacks) stuff has seemingly gotten much worse over the last five years or so. Hopefully it's not a Rodney King redux.


:fist:

Moving to a small town was one of the best decisions I have ever made.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:12 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
columbia wrote:Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Criminally Indicted By Citizens' Grand Jury For Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant And Complaint
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/prne ... 02/CL41488


As much as this case disgusts me, PLEASE visit this website with your speakers up :lol:

http://www.citizensgrandjury.com/


Larry Klayman has been a joke for 25 years. 18 thrown out civil suits against the Clinton Administration (and even sued Cheney at one point). A few years ago:

In April 2011, Klayman filed a lawsuit against Facebook, accusing the social media website of "negligence" for not responding quickly enough to calls to take down an anti-Israel "Third Intifada" page and demanding $1 billion in damages. Facebook representatives responded that the suit was "without merit."[6] In December 2012, the district court dismissed the complaint on 47 U.S.C. 230 grounds.[7]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Klayman
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:14 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah...I'm honestly thankful that I am living where I am now, and not still relatively close to Philly. The "flash mob" (read: gang attacks) stuff has seemingly gotten much worse over the last five years or so. Hopefully it's not a Rodney King redux.


We can divert a few voting buses of grandmothers in if you want.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Factorial on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:18 pm

The trial is not over but it does appear to be heading to not guilty. Can he instead be found guilty of manslaughter? Does anyone think that his actions (playing junior Police Officer) didn't lead/contribute to a death of another person?
Last edited by Factorial on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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