Jerry Sandusky Trial

[shafnutz05]

I'm just saying...this discussion was never about Paterno's guilt in that situation. Pretending it was is a copout. Belittling Sue Paterno giving $1.5 million (on top of the millions they have already given) is petty, period.

[columbia]

So the McQ family and everyone in the PSU administration is at fault...except JoePa.

That makes sense.

What in the hell are you talking about? When did anyone say JoePa wasn't at fault?

You are turning this into an entirely different discussion. If you hate Joe Paterno's guts (and his family by extension) that's fine. But the above is a total strawman

Everyone involved - except him- has been properly called out in this thread.

If the hero worshipers can't deal the complete truth, then that's their problem.

[MWB]

Who cares where Paterno left his money? I don't understand why anyone would expect it to even be made public.

[Rocco]

Funny, I thought this thread was about Sandusky, not about Paterno's will.

[Rocco]

So the McQ family and everyone in the PSU administration is at fault...except JoePa.

That makes sense.

What in the hell are you talking about? When did anyone say JoePa wasn't at fault?

You are turning this into an entirely different discussion. If you hate Joe Paterno's guts (and his family by extension) that's fine. But the above is a total strawman

Everyone involved - except him- has been properly called out in this thread.

If the hero worshipers can't deal the complete truth, then that's their problem.

Mostly because Paterno a) was never charged with anything, and b) hasn't really come up in the trial as best I can tell.

[shafnutz05]

Columbia, we have been discussing the trial. Paterno's culpability was discussed AD NAUSEAM for quite some time. He's dead now, and this thread is about the trial of Sandusky. If Paterno's ghost takes the stand and claims he didn't know any better, maybe that's a suitable time to have this discussion.

The reason why he hasn't been mentioned is because this trial is about Sandusky. It's not because of "hero worship".

[Pitt87]

So much for funding those scholarships.

Do you have any idea how many scholarships (among libraries and other things) the Paternos funded over the last six decades? I'll give him a pass here...wouldn't be surprised to see Sue give to the school upon her passing.

You may want to check your facts... I don't think they did much in the way of endowments for scholarship. They mostly gave charitable donations in the form of gifts to the university's general fund or gifts in recognition, like the millions he gave for the library.

In either case, I don't think anyone should read someone's will and say they were not charitable enough. His wife is alive, hes got kids that are surviving, and he should not give anything to anyone but them. They can decide what to do to honor their father with any money they inherit.

[Goalie]

Everyone involved - except him- has been properly called out in this thread.

If the hero worshipers can't deal the complete truth, then that's their problem.

Mostly because Paterno a) was never charged with anything, and b) hasn't really come up in the trial as best I can tell.

The fact that he has not come up more has made a lot of people sad I think.

[shafnutz05]

Well if you want to scorn him, start another thread or go back to the one that got deleted. I'm fully aware of his culpability. But this thread is intended to discuss the Sandusky trial. Starting a mudslinging fight over Paterno is pointless.

He did a lot of great things in his life, and made a MONSTER mistake late in his life and his legacy rightfully took a bad hit. He's dead now, and I don't care to drag him through the mud again.

[columbia]

Being dead absolves no one.

[Rocco]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

[shafnutz05]

Being dead absolves no one.

Sigh....who is saying that? Honestly? His culpability, as I've said, has been expounded upon endlessly, as it rightfully should. His legacy is what it is.

Again, he is dead now. Sandusky, who, you know, actually molested the kids, is very much alive and on trial for said molesting right now. Hence why this thread (titled "Jerry Sandusky Trial"), shouldn't become a war over Paterno.

[MWB]

I would think that people's reactions to McQuery's dad and Paterno would mirror each other. Somewhat interesting that they don't. Speaks to the public perception we have of one an the complete lack of knowledge of the other (except for one now very public incident).

[columbia]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

Right. You have full insight as to what I would do.

[Rocco]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

Right. You have full insight as to what I would do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

[shafnutz05]

I would think that people's reactions to McQuery's dad and Paterno would mirror each other. Somewhat interesting that they don't. Speaks to the public perception we have of one an the complete lack of knowledge of the other (except for one now very public incident).

I most certainly view their culpability just about equally, now that I know. I heard that Mr McQueary claimed to not even remember testifying at the preliminary? The hell?

[MWB]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

Sociological experiments show that no one does the right thing? Actually, some people do.

[Rocco]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

Sociological experiments show that no one does the right thing? Actually, some people do.

They show that people tend to not intervene even when they say they absolutely would.

[MWB]

I would think that people's reactions to McQuery's dad and Paterno would mirror each other. Somewhat interesting that they don't. Speaks to the public perception we have of one an the complete lack of knowledge of the other (except for one now very public incident).

I most certainly view their culpability just about equally, now that I know. I heard that Mr McQueary claimed to not even remember testifying at the preliminary? The hell?

Funny things seem to happen to the memory when a trial starts.

[Staggy]

Well if you want to scorn him, start another thread or go back to the one that got deleted. I'm fully aware of his culpability. But this thread is intended to discuss the Sandusky trial. Starting a mudslinging fight over Paterno is pointless.

[columbia]

Examining the truth of history is pointless?

[Rocco]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

Right. You have full insight as to what I would do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Please remind me to never hire you as my as attorney, if that's the extent of your logical processes.

I figured I would spare you difficult reading by linking to Wikipedia. You have a very simple view of the universe and I feared using anything more complicated would lose you.

[MWB]

Suppose: Someone I know (in fact my former employee) is suspected of raping 10 year olds:

Hmmmm....my bosses and the local authorities don't seem interested because they want to be "humane".
I'm driving to Harrisburg immediately and talking to the local FBI agents.
Wait. no one did that....including the beloved shaper of men.

They ALL - alive or dead - deserve our unlimited scorn.

You wouldn't. There have been sociological experiments that show people talk about all the heroic things they would do but end up not actually doing them. But it's easy to throw grenades and puff your chest in a hypothetical.

Sociological experiments show that no one does the right thing? Actually, some people do.

They show that people tend to not intervene even when they say they absolutely would.

I believe that study is about intervening when the actual event occurs, not knowing about an event later. Not sure how that would change the data, but I bet it would. The former means directly confronting someone; the latter does not.

[shafnutz05]

Examing the truth of history is pointless?

Again, what? The "truth of history" has been discussed ad nauseam, and nearly everyone agrees Paterno failed at a time when he could have shined.

This thread, again, is about the current events of the Sandusky trial. You are reopening an argument that has been covered for months, and the battle lines were all drawn. You started the argument making a ridiculous attack on Sue Paterno, and then turned it into a debate about Joe Paterno when you were called out.

Seriously, why?

[Rocco]

I believe that study is about intervening when the actual event occurs, not knowing about an event later. Not sure how that would change the data, but I bet it would. The former means directly confronting someone; the latter does not.

People have an incredible ability to wash their hands of things they didn't witness while claiming they'd always do the right thing.