Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:37 pm

tifosi77 wrote:My interest in this discussion is purely about the exercise of power by a sporting authority in a non-sporting realm.


I get that - and believe me I don't care about the machinations of the NCAA - which is why I have zero problem with them taking morally a correct action. They might as well do something righteous in a sea of slime.*

As a nod to the photo above: we are seeing different sides of the same moebius strip.

* College sports in general.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby MWB on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:38 pm

Is the * your new thing columbia?
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby columbia on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:39 pm

I'm the David Foster Wallace* of LGP.

* Excessive foot noter.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby pfim on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:40 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Criminal behavior is such a blanket term. If it was worded "The NCAA has never punished a school for child rape." You'd be hard pressed to find someone that says they shouldn't if it was involved with college sports.

Baylor's basketball program was sanctioned by the NCAA for:

* Coach Bliss paying for tuition for two players.
* Coaching staff providing meals, transportation, lodging and clothing to athletes.
* Coaching staff paying for tuition and fees for a recruit at another school.
* Bliss's encouragement of school boosters to donate to a foundation to woo prospective Baylor recruits.
* Failure to report positive drug test results by athletes.
* Failure by the entire coaching staff to "exercise institutional control over the basketball program."

Nowhere on that list do you see an NCAA sanction for Carlton Dotson murdering his teammate Patrick Dennehy.

[EDIT: Just read Rocco's comment bringing this up.]



Nor was their any penalty for the conspiracy Bliss laid out to blame Dennehy (a dead guy) and paint him as a drug dealer.

They're all related to amateurism rules and drugs. Because, that's what the NCAA is responsible for.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby Rocco on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:44 pm

MWB wrote:Baylor basketball and up did not cover up the murder. If they had, would the NCAA gotten involved? I think so.


The coach told players to lie to the investigators and tell them the victim was dealing drugs in an effort to cover up the fact the victim was going to rat out everyone.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby pfim on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:45 pm

Rocco wrote:
MWB wrote:Baylor basketball and up did not cover up the murder. If they had, would the NCAA gotten involved? I think so.


The coach told players to lie to the investigators and tell them the victim was dealing drugs in an effort to cover up the fact the victim was going to rat out everyone.


On tape.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby Rocco on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:47 pm

columbia wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:My interest in this discussion is purely about the exercise of power by a sporting authority in a non-sporting realm.


I get that - and believe me I don't care about the machinations of the NCAA - which is why I have zero problem with them taking morally a correct action. They might as well do something righteous in a sea of slime.*

As a nod to the photo above: we are seeing different sides of the same moebius strip.

* College sports in general.


I'm not completely unsympathetic to that line of thinking, I just disagree that the NCAA is the proper organization to get involved. There's nothing easy about this case, and hard cases make for bad law. I don't think there was any decision the NCAA could make that would have kept them from taking heat.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby Rocco on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:48 pm

pfim wrote:
Rocco wrote:
MWB wrote:Baylor basketball and up did not cover up the murder. If they had, would the NCAA gotten involved? I think so.


The coach told players to lie to the investigators and tell them the victim was dealing drugs in an effort to cover up the fact the victim was going to rat out everyone.


On tape.


Good lawyer gets that tape thrown out.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby DudeMan2766 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:06 pm

Still can't believe people think PSU got wronged in this. Amazing. But I knew it would happen. People still think Joe had nothing to do with anything and they're just picking on the dead guy cuz he can't fight back.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby steve784 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:12 pm

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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby MWB on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:25 pm

Rocco wrote:
MWB wrote:Baylor basketball and up did not cover up the murder. If they had, would the NCAA gotten involved? I think so.


The coach told players to lie to the investigators and tell them the victim was dealing drugs in an effort to cover up the fact the victim was going to rat out everyone.


Did not know that.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby Lt. Dish on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:46 pm

columbia wrote:I'm the David Foster Wallace* of LGP.

* Excessive foot noter.


My hubby used to call me "girl with curious hair" when we were dating.

Ahem--as you were. < skulks out :oops: >
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby Rocco on Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:01 pm

http://deadspin.com/5928267/penn-state- ... aa-and-won

This obviously excludes the PR analysis that trumped legal analysis, but it's nice to see smarter legal minds mine agreeing with me.

Also, as to his last point about the B1G possibly walking out- the NCAA is held together right now on duct tape and promises. There's nothing stopping the big conferences from bailing and starting their own league where they don't share the money with the crap conferences. IIRC, nobody wants to be the first one to bail. If the B1G left, the rest would follow.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:06 am

Victim #2 Comes Forward, Plans To Sue Penn State University
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/0 ... niversity/
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby MWB on Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:27 am

Rocco wrote:http://deadspin.com/5928267/penn-state-could-have-fought-the-ncaa-and-won

This obviously excludes the PR analysis that trumped legal analysis, but it's nice to see smarter legal minds mine agreeing with me.

Also, as to his last point about the B1G possibly walking out- the NCAA is held together right now on duct tape and promises. There's nothing stopping the big conferences from bailing and starting their own league where they don't share the money with the crap conferences. IIRC, nobody wants to be the first one to bail. If the B1G left, the rest would follow.


I just don't see how that really benefits PSU, big picture. Yes, they've got legal ground to stand on, but at what bigger cost? I think that PR angle is the bigger cost, which is a huge reason they went with the deal. As the last line of the article says, "[I]t's hard to take a stand on principle when youre being punished for facilitating serial child molestation."
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby Rocco on Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:04 am

MWB wrote:
Rocco wrote:http://deadspin.com/5928267/penn-state-could-have-fought-the-ncaa-and-won

This obviously excludes the PR analysis that trumped legal analysis, but it's nice to see smarter legal minds mine agreeing with me.

Also, as to his last point about the B1G possibly walking out- the NCAA is held together right now on duct tape and promises. There's nothing stopping the big conferences from bailing and starting their own league where they don't share the money with the crap conferences. IIRC, nobody wants to be the first one to bail. If the B1G left, the rest would follow.


I just don't see how that really benefits PSU, big picture. Yes, they've got legal ground to stand on, but at what bigger cost? I think that PR angle is the bigger cost, which is a huge reason they went with the deal. As the last line of the article says, "[I]t's hard to take a stand on principle when youre being punished for facilitating serial child molestation."


From a legal perspective, signing the Consent Decree is an admission of guilt that essentially exposes them to liability in any civil and criminal proceedings. Now, if the plan is to just fall on the sword when the Feds and victims come calling and write them all very large checks, that doesn't matter a whole lot. After admitting guilt though they don't have any other options. (As I tell clients, if you want to cooperate with the police, you can, but you might as well tell them everything because once you tell them anything we're not going to be able to fight the charges and the only thing you will have going for you is your cooperation.)

I agree that there wasn't a good choice, and it was practically impossible for the BOT to reverse this once the news came out. Had Erickson gone to the board first I'm not sure the same outcome would have occurred.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:05 pm

Just heard that O'Brien said he was under the impression (underlined for emphasis) a strong compliance with the NCAA could lead to a reduction in sanctions down the road.

If true, I don't know how anybody could still be defending the NCAA one way or another. If you're going to come out and take a hard stance you best have the guts to stick with it.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby DudeMan2766 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:28 pm

So possibly cutting Penn State some slack down the road from these sanctions that everyone is so outraged by is also the wrong move?

Reminds me of the crying about hurting the innocent players then being disgusted by the coaches offering to get them away from this mess.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:18 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:Reminds me of the crying about hurting the innocent players then being disgusted by the coaches offering to get them away from this mess.


That is a bit puzzling.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby steve784 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:23 pm

I have to say after accidentally clicking on Page 1 of this thread, it truly is amazing this has gone 84 pages without even a warning.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:24 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:Reminds me of the crying about hurting the innocent players then being disgusted by the coaches offering to get them away from this mess.


lol, the chip on your shoulder is absolutely enormous. You're right, those kind, benevolent coaches just waiting outside the Lasch Building to give those broken down giants a big hug and take them to a home where they will be loved :roll:

A lot of the players didn't even want to leave the building because the vultures were circling in the parking lot outside.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:28 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:Just heard that O'Brien said he was under the impression (underlined for emphasis) a strong compliance with the NCAA could lead to a reduction in sanctions down the road.

If true, I don't know how anybody could still be defending the NCAA one way or another. If you're going to come out and take a hard stance you best have the guts to stick with it.


i don't see the problem. prisoners have their sentences reduced for good behavior. probation programs exist all over the place. what's the issue here?

much like the "how dare they punish innocent people" argument, this is another misguided attempt to make this seem like some crazy, one-of-a-kind brand of justice.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Then don't lie through your teeth in front of a national audience and say this has anything to do with changing a football culture and sending a stark wake up call to other schools.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:32 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
DudeMan2766 wrote:Reminds me of the crying about hurting the innocent players then being disgusted by the coaches offering to get them away from this mess.


lol, the chip on your shoulder is absolutely enormous. You're right, those kind, benevolent coaches just waiting outside the Lasch Building to give those broken down giants a big hug and take them to a home where they will be loved :roll:

A lot of the players didn't even want to leave the building because the vultures were circling in the parking lot outside.


the coaches that are vulturing these players aren't doing anything wrong. the players who are leaving (aka the "innocent victims") want them there anyways.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:38 pm

shmenguin wrote:the coaches that are vulturing these players aren't doing anything wrong. the players who are leaving (aka the "innocent victims") want them there anyways.


I didn't mean to imply they are doing anything wrong, but the two points of view that Dudeman mentioned are hardly antithetical. You can disagree with the impact the penalties will have on the players, and also "disgusted" by the fact that in-conference coaches are parked on campus to grab the players.

I'm not personally disgusted by it, although I don't like it.
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