Lance Armstrong, Doper or Not?

[doublem]

of course.

[Malkamaniac]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/you-jury

I have no idea why this stuff is fascinating to me because I care 0 about the sport or the people involved.

[MWB]

It's the dirtiest sport in the world

His whole team / everyone around him has been involved in it

I'd be shocked if he was clean

Idc though and I don't think it ruins "everything he's about"

His entire career from beating cancer to overcoming odds in those 7 races. It wipes everything away. He didn't overcome cancer to beat everyone.

He overcame cancer with the help of steroids to beat everyone else. That of course is if everyone was doping then he overcame the dopers as well, but it's something I feel is a huge black cloud over his head.

Definitely a black cloud, but he still overcame cancer. With the help of steroids or not, it's still I big deal.

[doublem]

some people overcome cancer, come don't. I don't know how much he played a role in it.

[Malkamaniac]

It's the dirtiest sport in the world

His whole team / everyone around him has been involved in it

I'd be shocked if he was clean

Idc though and I don't think it ruins "everything he's about"

His entire career from beating cancer to overcoming odds in those 7 races. It wipes everything away. He didn't overcome cancer to beat everyone.

He overcame cancer with the help of steroids to beat everyone else. That of course is if everyone was doping then he overcame the dopers as well, but it's something I feel is a huge black cloud over his head.

Definitely a black cloud, but he still overcame cancer. With the help of steroids or not, it's still I big deal.

It's a huge deal that he beat cancer and became good enough to be professional again. It's a larger deal that his success was one part determination 2 parts doping and that wipes any good will off of those wins away.

[IanMoran]

Everyone in bicylying world is on it

[jimjom]

Definite doper. He should just pull the same stuff A-Rod did and invent some fake cousin and blame it on him.

[Ossa]

Everyone in bicylying world is on it

Everyone in the cycling world was on it. I think they've done a good job in cleaning up the sport the past couple years.

[AlexPKeaton]

I am loving this because I hate bicycle idiots.

[Gaucho]

Everyone in bicylying world is on it

Everyone in the cycling world was on it. I think they've done a good job in cleaning up the sport the past couple years.

let's hope so.

[bh]

I guess I don't see the big deal. There are soooo many substances out there that affect performance. Every athelete enchances their performance with something. Why are some ok and others are not? I agree with yubb that they should just let people use what they want. It's their health not mine.

[demondg1]

I am loving this because I hate bicycle idiots.

I hear you. Especially the ones in North Park who think they're cars. They want to share the same road as you, but they don't want to adhere to the same traffic laws.

[MWB]

It's a huge deal that he beat cancer and became good enough to be professional again. It's a larger deal that his success was one part determination 2 parts doping and that wipes any good will off of those wins away.

Is that the determination to doping ratio?

[Malkamaniac]

It's a huge deal that he beat cancer and became good enough to be professional again. It's a larger deal that his success was one part determination 2 parts doping and that wipes any good will off of those wins away.

Is that the determination to doping ratio?

I would imagine the thought that doping beat everyone else is what would be considered lol.

[steelhammer]

I am loving this because I hate bicycle idiots.

I hear you. Especially the ones in North Park who think they're cars. They want to share the same road as you, but they don't want to adhere to the same traffic laws.

I would bet my career earnings that the incidence of drivers not adhering to traffic laws is much much higher than that of road cyclists (on a per capita basis). Remember that next you are driving 26+ in a 25 MPH zone.

[knives of ice]

there is absolutely no doubt he is guilty from everything i've read and the number of witnesses saying they know and saw he doped. that many people aren't jealous there is way way too much evidence in a sport that is the dirtiest out there.

[jimjom]

I am loving this because I hate bicycle idiots.

I hear you. Especially the ones in North Park who think they're cars. They want to share the same road as you, but they don't want to adhere to the same traffic laws.

A young JJ once screamed at a guy on a bike who was riding on Route 51. Route 51! It's a highway!!!!! Then he caught up to me as I was stuck in traffic on Brownsville Road and spit inside my car.

[ulf]

I am loving this because I hate bicycle idiots.

I hear you. Especially the ones in North Park who think they're cars. They want to share the same road as you, but they don't want to adhere to the same traffic laws.

I would bet my career earnings that the incidence of drivers not adhering to traffic laws is much much higher than that of road cyclists (on a per capita basis). Remember that next you are driving 26+ in a 25 MPH zone.

I would say most car drivers adhere to traffic laws. I would say minimal cyclists do.

[steelhammer]

I am loving this because I hate bicycle idiots.

I hear you. Especially the ones in North Park who think they're cars. They want to share the same road as you, but they don't want to adhere to the same traffic laws.

I would bet my career earnings that the incidence of drivers not adhering to traffic laws is much much higher than that of road cyclists (on a per capita basis). Remember that next you are driving 26+ in a 25 MPH zone.

I would say most car drivers adhere to traffic laws. I would say minimal cyclists do.

Which laws are these cyclists not adhering to? I have no doubt that there are idiot cyclists who don't come to a stop at a stop sign, but most drivers don't come to a complete stop either (or stop before the actual sign/line). I think it would be very difficult to find a driver who obeys every single traffic code. I drive through 2 school zones everyday to work. Let me ask you, how many times have you been driven (no pun) to actually call the police on these scarecrow cyclists?

[ulf]

I didn't say I hate cyclists and they all need to be removed from the road. I said they never obey any traffic laws.

[MWB]

I get annoyed when some cyclists ignore traffic signs, but a car breaking traffic laws is a lot more dangerous than a bike doing so.

[Malkamaniac]

I couldn't count how many times cyclists don't stop at a stop sign, use hand signals, etc. etc.

There's a guy who rides home from work and numerous times he just runs stops signs when there are multiple cars coming. One of these days he's going to get hit. I just hope I'm fortunate enough to see it.

[steelhammer]

I didn't say I hate cyclists and they all need to be removed from the road. I said they never obey any traffic laws.

And I'm saying that neither do most drivers. I feel that you are over-exaggerating the extent to which cyclists break the traffic code and are greatly underestimating the number of drivers that do worse. Again, I put my career salary on the line if anyone wants to take the bet and standardize a way to evaluate the problem.

[MWB]

there is absolutely no doubt he is guilty from everything i've read and the number of witnesses saying they know and saw he doped. that many people aren't jealous there is way way too much evidence in a sport that is the dirtiest out there.

The "evidence" doesn't seem that strong though. The hearsay and testimony of those who were caught or admitted to doping is strong.

[jimjom]

Conversely, I also got pulled over by the cops while on a bike as I cut across a sidewalk to avoid a car in the South Side works so I've seen both sides of this double edged sword.