Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:11 pm

I really wanted them to sign someone like Damon or whoever was around last year just to be there to teach them what a playoff race was all about, but they kept Presley, Hague, and as much as I like Walker he's not Rogers Hornsby, but I do agree with the youth aspect. TBH though this is where they manager and coaches have to make up for the lack of veteran leadership since the FO didn't address it, and Hurdle and Co. failed.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:14 pm

since1970 wrote:I really wanted them to sign someone like Damon or whoever was around last year just to be there to teach them what a playoff race was all about, but they kept Presley, Hague, and as much as I like Walker he's not Rogers Hornsby, but I do agree with the youth aspect. TBH though this is where they manager and coaches have to make up for the lack of veteran leadership since the FO didn't address it, and Hurdle and Co. failed.

AJ Burnett?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 pm

It's a lot different mentally for a position player than a pitcher. The grind is a lot more taxing, although I do agree he should have been able to help JMac
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:26 pm

Rod Barajas? Point is I'd rather have a ballplayer than some "leader" like Damon who's gonna hit 190.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:38 pm

Damon was a going to be a bench guy, so his contribution was going to be minimal at best on the field, but someone like him in the clubhouse has way more value than on field, as long as he accepts that role, if you've ever been in a stretch drive at whatever level you played you know what I'm saying, cause guys always have one on the guy they know has been there and succeeded to see how he handles it, and it's even better to have him there to point things out and just to bounce stuff off.....
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:40 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Stanton would be so sexxxxy on the Pirates... would require way too much though and we'd only have him for like 2 years


Why? He is arbitration eligible starting in 2014 and not a UFA until 2017. If they ask for Marte and a pitcher I'd do in a minute.


Do you really think they would pay what he would be set to make in arbitration?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby beerman on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:04 pm

Damon had a lower OBP than Barajas had last year, whether he was on the bench or not he'd have been on equal level of hatred with Barajas and Barmes by mid-April.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:29 am

Never said to have him here in April. I only wanted him here from August on, as a mentor, since we were wasting roster spots what does his OBP matter, if there was someone better I would've been happy to see him here in the same role. This team sorely lacked leadership, so if it came from a .190 hitter with an extensive playoff/WS resume I'll take him.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:41 am

I'll take leadership on the coaching staff, not another warm body on the bench hitting 190
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:59 am

You need leadership from players. Athlete's tend to tune out managers/coaches. To underestimate the value of leadership on the playing field is ridiculous. Look at championship teams and you find leadership, and it probably isn't just from a captain.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:44 am

Yikes. Didn't expect to come in this thread to find that the Pirates sorely missed a washed-up has been who would have been the worst player on the team because of his leadership...

Just because you're old doesn't mean you're a leader. If you suck, who the hell is going to follow you?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby beerman on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:28 am

since1970 wrote:Never said to have him here in April. I only wanted him here from August on, as a mentor, since we were wasting roster spots what does his OBP matter, if there was someone better I would've been happy to see him here in the same role. This team sorely lacked leadership, so if it came from a .190 hitter with an extensive playoff/WS resume I'll take him.


I'd say they needed a lot of things ahead of leadership, when things started going south the team had no starter who could get through 5 innings (even AJ sucked for a few starts in there), no middle relief help to get the ball to Grilli/Hanrahan, no ability to hold runners on or throw them out, nobody outside of Jones was hitting in August, a complete inability to make a productive out and not to mention a few injuries. No matter how sweet a beard or long hair Damon could grow to bring the guys together he wouldn't have fixed/helped those issues.

I've always liked Damon and would've preferred him to McLouth if they were going to take a flyer on a crappy outfielder at the beginning of last year but he wasn't the missing piece. The team had holes all year but overcame them because the pitching was great in April/May, above average in June/July. When it turned to beyond crappy in August/September the team looked awful. The team fell apart when the pitching sucked, it's no coincidence that for the first 4 months they didn't have an ERA over 4 in any single month and were 59-44 to start August, from that point the ERA was well over 4 and they went 20-39. Unless Damon could've given them 6 innings of decent starting pitching or some good middle relief he wouldn't have helped the team not fall apart.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:33 pm

When you're in a clubhouse or locker room and your team struggles you do need leadership. I know the Pirates had holes and they were going to be exposed, but when the slide started you had to rely on guys to stop it who couldn't handle the pressure. Guys start gripping the bat tighter, and start over throwing, if they had played around .500 or .450 the second half I'd say they came back to earth, but to be around .320 or whatever they were tells me there was a problem in the room as well as on the field. I'm amazed that people who follow hockey so closely casually dismiss leadership, especially when there's a call for it when the Penguins have a bad few weeks, and Damon might not be the best example, but the principle remains. It's easy to play and the room is great when you win, but it's a chore to go to work when losing 7 games outta 10, and maybe in a couple years Cutch or Walker are those guys that step up, but last year there was didn't seem to be anyone who guys could look to on that team. My best example is Gary Roberts who was washed up when he came here, but was held in mythological status for his leadership.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby LeopardLetang on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:50 pm

update on fall and winter league guys

santos is rolling. in the AFL (talent-wise somewhere between AA and AAA) he's batting 299/413/455 with 14bb and 14k in 77ab with 9sb and 1cs. that's a lot of walks. that's a lot of steals. dude is hitting his way through life. useful player.

marte in the dominican winter league. i don't know what the talent level is like in the league (less than AFL though) he's hitting 321/400/509 with 7bb 14k in 53ab (2HR). hopefully he keeps working on those walks.

vic black has been disappointing. he's working on a new 2seamer, and the AFL is the place to do that, but his main concern is control, and it's been poor no matter the reason. only redeeming stat is 11K in 10.2. but 11bb and 11+ ERA :(

kyle kaminska (part of the gorkys/supplemental 1st rounder - gaby sanchez trade) is killing it in the AFL. 28IP 22H 4bb 21K 1.61ERA. following up his AA performance with the curve of 12IP 13H 0BB 11K. could turn the trade into an easy win if he keeps it up. has pretty low upside velocity wise though.

gift ngoepe has surprised. after a somewhat poor but somewhat interesting year at A+, he's gone on to the AFL to start 261/370/413, still showing encouraging walk numbers. he's an interesting prospect since he was so raw coming into the system. he's held his own at a good age so far, with potentially good SS defense and great patience with some pop (9 HR in A+)

matt curry started very slowly in the AFL but has been hot since. sporting a 253/366/342, he's still not displaying enough power for a 1Bman but has a .918 OPS and 9walks in his last 10 games
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:17 pm

Anyone else get 10 game plan info in the mail for 2013? I had 6 seats in 115 Row Y, they were 330 a last year. They want 430 apiece this season. Given the lack of spending on Free Agents I cant rationalize paying that price.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:22 pm

Not saying for sure they are going to make any signings but no one really gets signed until winter meetings anyway
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:59 pm

ulf wrote:Not saying for sure they are going to make any signings but no one really gets signed until winter meetings anyway


Everything I've heard and read seems to indicate that they aren't going to spend more than 5M-6M total this off-season.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby offsides on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:03 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
ulf wrote:Not saying for sure they are going to make any signings but no one really gets signed until winter meetings anyway


Everything I've heard and read seems to indicate that they aren't going to spend more than 5M-6M total this off-season.


Why should they spend more? Still lots of people going to the games and still making lots of money.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:31 pm

Why should they spend more? This FA class sucks.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:43 pm

So when exactly do the pirates start spending money
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:46 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:So when exactly do the pirates start spending money


I don't know why they seem to be letting Grilli just walk, they should atleast offer him a reasonable contract.

But otherwise, I think they should make a play for Napoli, he'd be a perfect addition by platooning at catcher with McKenry and first with Jones.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:47 pm

I think Napoli is out of our price range, plus I dont think he'd ever agree to come here.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:28 pm

If they could increase that 5-6 million (sort of a made up number) they could get Napoli or a Russell Martin.

Doubt either one of them would come here though.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:15 pm

Nap Dawg would be great here
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:13 pm

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