Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby slappybrown on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:48 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I didn't bring up the overpass issue, lets go with held out over a hotel balcony, stadium balcony, highway overlook railing, pier railing?

0 for 4.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby count2infinity on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:53 am

Is this where we spark up the conversation of "If I was there, I'd have jumped down in to save him" again?
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:54 am

10 pages or so.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:55 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:I can toss my kid over an overpass into oncoming traffic. Is the city to blame for not providing sufficient barriers to prevent that?

I don't think that our legal code should be created in a way that people can profit by creating fascinating new ways of injuring themselves that someone else could have prevented.

That is an absolutely absurd analogy. The mother did not "toss" her daughter, and there would be no reason to hold her daughter up against the overpass such that overpass-designers should prepare for that. The zoo, on the other hand, had every reason to think its young customers would be held up next to the glass displays, and reasonably so. Hundreds of kids -- every day -- are lifted up against the glass displays. How does it then make sense to remove that glass display in one portion, and without warning, such that a child not unreasonably leaning against the glass would fall forward, thinking the glass (which is, well, clear) was still in front her?

You can't recharacterize what happened to fit your narrative. I'm not saying the zoo acted egregiously. I'm not saying the zoo acted egregiously. I'm just saying our legal system does a good job of getting very, very safe products through the (dis)incentive of liability.


Its definitely absurd, you can't toss the kid over, you'd have to just hold him over the edge and have him slip out in order to blame the city. Lets not be crazy here.

It's fine if you can't see the difference between holding a kid over an overpass and holding a kid up against the glass of a zoo display. If you can't figure it out intuitively, empirics should help. Every day 10,000s of toddlers are picked up and put against the glass of a zoo display. None are held over an overpass.


Obvioulsly it's not a direct comparison. I'm just trying to say that there are millions of ways that people could potentially injure themselves if they stupidly put themselves at risk. I think all in and all most people agree that the woman is at fault and the zoo could potentially have barricaded the exhbit more.

My frustration is more to the fact that this country educates so many lawyers that there are probably hundreds of thousands who specialize in the manner of suing people because they could have done more. They spend their lives studying the legal code to basically find loopholes, a legal code can't conceivably account for all the potential actions of the populace. And then we're ingrained that the legal code is some holy device that if something isn't deemed illegal by that code...it is perfectly acceptable behavior.

So in this, I dropped my kid in a zoo exhibit. A lawyer has told me that I can sue the zoo for not providing sufficient barriers to prevent me from doing that. There's a good chance a judge will deem partial blame on the zoo and I can make some money from this. Despite the fact that i've already forced the zoo to make all sorts of changes to prevent people like me from dropping my kid in an exhibit.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:57 am

Why shouldn't lawyers go after those cases, there is money in it. The "its anyone's fault but mine" idea is nowhere near its peak.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Pitts on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:57 am

TheHammer24 wrote: Every day 10,000s of toddlers are picked up and put against the glass of a zoo display. None are held over an overpass.

But, they are held over balconies!
Image

Perhaps all buildings should be sued for negligence.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:59 am

It's not just an indirect comparison, it's completely disanalogous. You're aware of the precise facts of this story, right? Glass encompassed almost the entire display, save for one spot. The child had its hands against the glass as she was being showed the exhibit but when the glass inexplicably stopped (why obstruct part of the view?) she leaned forward and fell.

Your frustration may be valid. Too many lawyers are educated which creates a lot of law suits. But I don't think this is an appropriate case to air your frustration. I think this is a pretty easy case of at least partial negligence by the zoo.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Pitts on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 am

Hammer, it was a boy. Just FYI.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:15 am

TheHammer24 wrote:It's not just an indirect comparison, it's completely disanalogous. You're aware of the precise facts of this story, right? Glass encompassed almost the entire display, save for one spot. The child had its hands against the glass as she was being showed the exhibit but when the glass inexplicably stopped (why obstruct part of the view?) she leaned forward and fell.

Your frustration may be valid. Too many lawyers are educated which creates a lot of law suits. But I don't think this is an appropriate case to air your frustration. I think this is a pretty easy case of at least partial negligence by the zoo.



I get it, it's not a great analogy. I'll set my brain on developing a more apt comparison.

Do you have some kind of solid visual on the display where this happened? I've image searched on google, and from all the images i've seen, it took an excessive level of carelessness from the woman for this to have happened. And just because people are all holding their kids up against the barriers doesn't make it right. I think a sign from the zoo should be a legally sufficient preventive measure.

"PLEASE DON"T HOLD CHILDREN ABOVE BARRIERS"
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:34 am

Troy Loney wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:It's not just an indirect comparison, it's completely disanalogous. You're aware of the precise facts of this story, right? Glass encompassed almost the entire display, save for one spot. The child had its hands against the glass as she was being showed the exhibit but when the glass inexplicably stopped (why obstruct part of the view?) she leaned forward and fell.

Your frustration may be valid. Too many lawyers are educated which creates a lot of law suits. But I don't think this is an appropriate case to air your frustration. I think this is a pretty easy case of at least partial negligence by the zoo.



I get it, it's not a great analogy. I'll set my brain on developing a more apt comparison.

Do you have some kind of solid visual on the display where this happened? I've image searched on google, and from all the images i've seen, it took an excessive level of carelessness from the woman for this to have happened. And just because people are all holding their kids up against the barriers doesn't make it right. I think a sign from the zoo should be a legally sufficient preventive measure.

"PLEASE DON"T HOLD CHILDREN ABOVE BARRIERS"


Reasonable minds can certainly differ on this question. It would go to a jury, I think, and you as well as I have an equal likelihood of determining whether the zoo acted unreasonably.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby pittsoccer33 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:56 am

Nat Geo Wild had a few things on yesterday about African Painted Dogs that I watched.

Previously in this thread I said I was really surprised nobody tried to help the little boy.

After watching them hunt, well, I hope to God thats not what anybody at the zoo saw that day. That was incredibly vicious.

There were two programs. One was called Predators at War and the other was Killer Dogs of Africa. Both really interesting. Killer Dogs of Africa was extremely sad.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Dickie Dunn on Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:17 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:Nat Geo Wild had a few things on yesterday about African Painted Dogs that I watched.

Previously in this thread I said I was really surprised nobody tried to help the little boy.

After watching them hunt, well, I hope to God thats not what anybody at the zoo saw that day. That was incredibly vicious.

There were two programs. One was called Predators at War and the other was Killer Dogs of Africa. Both really interesting. Killer Dogs of Africa was extremely sad.


You inspired me to do a search for African Painted Dogs on YouTube. Wow. Fast, efficient, relentless killing machines.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby JS© on Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:19 am

did they ever reach a verdict or settlement on this case?
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:20 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:Nat Geo Wild had a few things on yesterday about African Painted Dogs that I watched.

Previously in this thread I said I was really surprised nobody tried to help the little boy.

After watching them hunt, well, I hope to God thats not what anybody at the zoo saw that day. That was incredibly vicious.


I can't speak for everyone, but I was talking more about the interim between when the child fell in and when the dogs noticed he was there. I think it was said that there was a minute or two between when the kid fell into the exhibit before being ripped apart
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Pitts on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:06 pm

slappybrown wrote:I haven't kept up generally or with this thread, but did she put him on the railing? I don't recall. I thought they were at the railing and he squirmed free.

From what I read from people that know the family, the mother was holding him on her hip, with him facing away from her. As they walked through the exhibit, the child was banging on the fencing. When they reached the open spot, he was continuing to bang, and nothing was there. Forward momentum drove him out of his mother's arms.
Idoit40fans wrote:I didn't bring up the overpass issue, lets go with held out over a hotel balcony, stadium balcony, highway overlook railing, pier railing? What does glass have to do with any of this?


See above.
Last edited by Pitts on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Shyster on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:10 pm

JS© wrote:did they ever reach a verdict or settlement on this case?

I do not believe so. According to the prothonotary's website, the suit is still active.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Pitts on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:13 pm

lol...I hate bumped threads! They confuse me.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby eddysnake on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:15 pm

Pitts wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I haven't kept up generally or with this thread, but did she put him on the railing? I don't recall. I thought they were at the railing and he squirmed free.

From what I read from people that know the family, the mother was holding him on her hip, with him facing away from her. As they walked through the exhibit, the child was banging on the fencing. When they reached the open spot, he was continuing to bang, and nothing was there. Forward momentum drove him out of his mother's arms.
Idoit40fans wrote:I didn't bring up the overpass issue, lets go with held out over a hotel balcony, stadium balcony, highway overlook railing, pier railing? What does glass have to do with any of this?


See above.


That sounds pretty typical, based on that description, I couldn't say bad things toward that parent. I was there a couple weeks ago and I always have 1 of my kids on my shoulders (I hold their legs a little tighter now), but it's hard to put yourself in that scenario and reading that, it's hard to imagine you are thinking that this is about to happen.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby blackjack68 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:28 pm

Shyster wrote:
JS© wrote:did they ever reach a verdict or settlement on this case?

I do not believe so. According to the prothonotary's website, the suit is still active.


http://www.post-gazette.com/local/regio ... 1402130293

Lawsuit is still active.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby columbia on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:30 pm

Sometimes an accident is just that.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby eddysnake on Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:35 pm

columbia wrote:Sometimes an accident is just that.


tell that to Milbury.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:28 pm

Here's the complaint in the lawsuit.

http://www.smbb.com/media/125124/1-time ... 13-mcs.pdf

I've said before, there's definitely a colorable claim for negligence.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby newarenanow on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:37 pm

eddysnake wrote:
columbia wrote:Sometimes an accident is just that.


tell that to Milbury.


:lol:
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:56 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:Here's the complaint in the lawsuit.

http://www.smbb.com/media/125124/1-time ... 13-mcs.pdf

I've said before, there's definitely a colorable claim for negligence.


In the eyes of the law maybe. In the eyes of any reasonable person, there is not.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby IanMoran on Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:49 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Here's the complaint in the lawsuit.

http://www.smbb.com/media/125124/1-time ... 13-mcs.pdf

I've said before, there's definitely a colorable claim for negligence.


In the eyes of the law maybe. In the eyes of any reasonable person, there is not.

Meh, read paragraphs 9-15, and paragraphs 24/25 and I think you’ll change your mind.. Definitely a colorable claim for negligence

Also compare it to what appears to be the industry standard / what could arguably be used to argue how the zoo should have reasonably protected their guests (pictures starting on page 17)
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