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Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:08 pm

Oh this discussion again
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:21 pm

IanMoran wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Here's the complaint in the lawsuit.

http://www.smbb.com/media/125124/1-time ... 13-mcs.pdf

I've said before, there's definitely a colorable claim for negligence.


In the eyes of the law maybe. In the eyes of any reasonable person, there is not.

Meh, read paragraphs 9-15, and paragraphs 24/25 and I think you’ll change your mind.. Definitely a colorable claim for negligence

Also compare it to what appears to be the industry standard / what could arguably be used to argue how the zoo should have reasonably protected their guests (pictures starting on page 17)

No. Your soul has been removed, im not continuing this discussion.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby IanMoran on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:43 am

Refuses to read allegations.... States allegations are bs. Makes sense
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:49 am

It is certainly true that the zoo could have provided more safeguard to prevent such an incident. I just think in a case like this, it isn't the responsiblity of the zoo to protect people from themselves. You'd think people would be able to prevent themselves from dropping people into the exhibit instead of raising a higher fence.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:53 am

And it looks like a total money grab. How many hundreds of thousands of people managed to observe the wild dogs without incident? Nothing is going to alter the blame in this situation.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Jim on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:04 am

There is no fence between the sidewalk and road in front of my house. Nor is there a sign saying to NOT just walk out into traffic. So, if I go out into the street and get hit is it due to negligence of the city/county/state for not having more barriers and signs? At some point it is NOT some else's fault, potentially not anyone's fault. Sometimes things just go wrong, even horribly wrong.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:10 am

And that zoo employee comes off as a major case of the "I told you so" variety.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby count2infinity on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:15 am

Jim wrote:There is no fence between the sidewalk and road in front of my house. Nor is there a sign saying to NOT just walk out into traffic. So, if I go out into the street and get hit is it due to negligence of the city/county/state for not having more barriers and signs?


There's only one way to find out...
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby columbia on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:18 am

:pop:
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:24 am

Those animals are really brutal. In the documentary I was watching they practicied infanticide, cannibalism, and spread rabies to each other.

A few researchers at the time said that those dogs are afraid of humans and never attack them - kids walk past them to school. That surprised me because they could easy rip an unarmed human apart very quickly.

I whole heartedly expected the police officer and/or the zoo to be smacked with an Endangered Species Act violation by the Fish and Wildlife Service for shooting one of the dogs. I'm really surprised that didn't happen.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Pitts on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:42 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:Those animals are really brutal. In the documentary I was watching they practicied infanticide, cannibalism, and spread rabies to each other.

lol. Well...they are animals.

Sorry, that statement made me laugh. It's not like they make a conscious decision to practice cannibalism. And the infanticide thing is more related to who runs the pack and wanting their genes to go forward and not some competitor's. It's an animal thing.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby dodint on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:52 am

I thought the rabies observation was amusing. It took humans thousands of years to come up with germ theory, give the dogs some time.

(yes, for the sake of this discussion I include virus in germ theory)
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby LeopardLetang on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:13 pm

Jim wrote:There is no fence between the sidewalk and road in front of my house. Nor is there a sign saying to NOT just walk out into traffic. So, if I go out into the street and get hit is it due to negligence of the city/county/state for not having more barriers and signs? At some point it is NOT some else's fault, potentially not anyone's fault. Sometimes things just go wrong, even horribly wrong.


Exactly. This isn't Italy.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby LeopardLetang on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:16 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:Those animals are really brutal. In the documentary I was watching they practicied infanticide, cannibalism, and spread rabies to each other.

A few researchers at the time said that those dogs are afraid of humans and never attack them - kids walk past them to school. That surprised me because they could easy rip an unarmed human apart very quickly.

I whole heartedly expected the police officer and/or the zoo to be smacked with an Endangered Species Act violation by the Fish and Wildlife Service for shooting one of the dogs. I'm really surprised that didn't happen.


You're slowly turning from amazing tv info guy to freakishly scared of dog guy lol. Both are good iterations fwiw
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:32 pm

im multi faceted.

my girlfriend is crazy for a bulldog, so ive been studying. i think they're really cool animals (dogs in general) but they do freak me out.

especially the man eating ones.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Tico Rick on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:46 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:Those animals are really brutal. In the documentary I was watching they practicied infanticide, cannibalism, and spread rabies to each other.


That sounds like LGP.com to me. :pop:
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby dodint on Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:39 pm

Not to be downer, because I love dogs and hope that people like pittsoccer33 can overcome their fear. I'm just going to put it out there that bulldogs have a really hard time, particularly as they age, with upper respiratory issues. They're bred to look the way they do but it takes a toll on their ability to breathe.

A short summary of common issues.

I'm not saying don't do it, particularly if getting the dog from a shelter. Just go at it with some research in hand. And let us know how it goes. :)
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:41 pm

Also with the bulldog, you have to wipe their butts after they do their business or they'll stain whatever they sit on.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby dodint on Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:43 pm

hah, noted.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby TheHammer24 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Troy Loney wrote:It is certainly true that the zoo could have provided more safeguard to prevent such an incident. I just think in a case like this, it isn't the responsiblity of the zoo to protect people from themselves. You'd think people would be able to prevent themselves from dropping people into the exhibit instead of raising a higher fence.

So if the Plaintiff is 50% at fault, and the zoo is 50% at fault, why should the plaintiff bear 100% of the costs?
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby TheHammer24 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:32 pm

Jim wrote:There is no fence between the sidewalk and road in front of my house. Nor is there a sign saying to NOT just walk out into traffic. So, if I go out into the street and get hit is it due to negligence of the city/county/state for not having more barriers and signs? At some point it is NOT some else's fault, potentially not anyone's fault. Sometimes things just go wrong, even horribly wrong.

This isn't a good example. The zoo can put up additional fencing for $10 without diminishing the exhibit's value. A sidewalk with fencing is prohibitively expensive and its functionality ceases if people can't get off of the sidewalk. Plus, the dangers of traffic are well known. True, a wild-dog exhibit poses obvious dangers, too, but the point the complaint makes is that it's not obvious ---to the kid observing the exhibit---the glass stops and an opening begins. This is precisely what caused the child's death. However, people did tell the zoo this posed a risk, putting them on notice, and other zoos recognized the threat so they didn't leave anything unexposed.
Last edited by TheHammer24 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:32 pm

In that case could the zoo counter sue because that negligence lead to the death of a valuable endangered animal?
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:38 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:It is certainly true that the zoo could have provided more safeguard to prevent such an incident. I just think in a case like this, it isn't the responsiblity of the zoo to protect people from themselves. You'd think people would be able to prevent themselves from dropping people into the exhibit instead of raising a higher fence.

So if the Plaintiff is 50% at fault, and the zoo is 50% at fault, why should the plaintiff bear 100% of the costs?



I'd say that the zoo is more like <1% at fault, based on the probability of a pedestrian falling into the exhibit relative to the number of people that see the exhibit without incident.

I understand that this particular incident could have been prevented at very little cost....but we've had this discussion before and should just agree that we're coming at this from different perspectives.
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby IanMoran on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:52 pm

I really haven't read this thread, and I'm guessing this has already been discussed (especially with the Hammer being so active)

But with the talk of % of blames... In PA, plaintiff's can't recover if a court finds that its 51% or more to blame, but can recover if a court finds the parents 50% or less to blame.

Regardless of what "%" you place the blame, I think its "reasonable" to find that the Zoo had some blame (based on previous knowledge that parents often lifted their kids up at that location, and that their exhibit provided more risk than most similar exhibits), that this would reach the trial stage for a jury to determine exactly what % each party has of the blame.

I'd imagine the Zoo would be pretty desperate to settle before the publicity of an actual trial...

Edit: Although I'm not sure about the law on if this would be the case, there's some stuff on if the parents who share some blame for their minor child's injury are viewed under this standard as plaintiffs or joint tortfeasor and tbh Idk much about it (I'll let a real attorney comment if they want)
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Re: Tragedy today at Pittsburgh Zoo

Postby TheHammer24 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:01 pm

IanMoran wrote:I really haven't read this thread, and I'm guessing this has already been discussed (especially with the Hammer being so active)

But with the talk of % of blames... In PA, the parents can't recover if a court finds that its 51% or more to blame, but can recover if a court finds the parents 50% or less to blame.

Regardless of what "%" you place the blame, I think its "reasonable" to find that the Zoo had some blame (based on previous knowledge that parents often lifted their kids up at that location, and that their exhibit provided more risk than most similar exhibits), that this would reach the trial stage for a jury to determine exactly what % each party has of the blame.

I'd imagine the Zoo would be pretty desperate to settle before the publicity of an actual trial...

I cannot see any way that the zoo could dispose of the case through a motion to dismiss or a motion for summary judgment for the reasons you stated. A reasonable person could (but may not) conclude the zoo acted unreasonably by not closing off the entire exhibit. My and Troy's discussion shows where reasonable minds may differ.
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