Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby slappybrown on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:36 pm

Troy Loney wrote:Cowher needs to shoulder a lot of the blame for the stiffs at qb he had on his roster, his desire to mold Stewart into a QB, multiple season with Tommy Maddox. he had to been a part of some of those decisions to not address the qb situation in the draft.

That's silly IMO. "A lot" of the blame? Donahoe and Colbert were the final say on personnel by all accounts. Donahoe was forced out precisely because Cowher felt he didnt value Cowher's input.

Only in PGH can 15 years of almost uninterrupted winning seasons and playoff appearances plus two SB be looked at as "meh"
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Yeah I'm not sure how Cowher could fix it either---it's not like we were drafting early in any year under his regime, and in those we did we drafted Troy (through trade), Holmes (through trade), Burress, and Ben. All good picks. I think people take the rumor that he was against Ben and impute that decision onto a bunch of non-existant earlier decision not to draft a viable QB.

Troy Edwards was a bad pick early in the first round, but no good QBs came out of that draft. The best QB after Burress was Chad Pennington---I think we got the best of that.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:00 pm

He whiffed on basically every second round pick he made, I'm sure there could have been some QBs available in those years that would have been better options than the guys they had on their roster.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:00 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Cowher needs to shoulder a lot of the blame for the stiffs at qb he had on his roster, his desire to mold Stewart into a QB, multiple season with Tommy Maddox. he had to been a part of some of those decisions to not address the qb situation in the draft.

That's silly IMO. "A lot" of the blame? Donahoe and Colbert were the final say on personnel by all accounts. Donahoe was forced out precisely because Cowher felt he didnt value Cowher's input.

Only in PGH can 15 years of almost uninterrupted winning seasons and playoff appearances plus two SB be looked at as "meh"


Cowher loved his stiff QBs. The Steelers have Big Ben because ownership overrided Cowher's desire to draft Shawn Andrews. Bringing in the illustrious Kent Graham was Cowher's move.

shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah, Tomlin is also fortunate to have coached Roethlisberger for all six of his years. Cowher dealt with a long list of stiffs at the QB position. There's your difference.


Can't that be said for any successful coach?

slappybrown wrote:I think you're crazy if you believe that Tomlin's resume is superior to Cowher's at this point.


Better winning percentage (his winning percentage right now is the same as Cowher's through six seasons), same Super Bowl record, hasn't made a mess of AFC Championship games against lesser opponents, three division titles in five completed seasons. Tomlin has accomplished in five years what took Cowher 15 years to do.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:12 pm

Troy Loney wrote:He whiffed on basically every second round pick he made, I'm sure there could have been some QBs available in those years that would have been better options than the guys they had on their roster.

looking back, some of those 2nd round picks were laughably bad

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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby viva la ben on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:14 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:He whiffed on basically every second round pick he made, I'm sure there could have been some QBs available in those years that would have been better options than the guys they had on their roster.

looking back, some of those 2nd round picks were laughably bad

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(He beat)Chad Scott was a first rounder
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:17 pm

I think some of the success Tomlin has had can be attributed to the fact that most of the players on the three Super Bowl teams were players that Cowher drafted.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:20 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:He whiffed on basically every second round pick he made, I'm sure there could have been some QBs available in those years that would have been better options than the guys they had on their roster.

looking back, some of those 2nd round picks were laughably bad

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Something Shields, that guys stands out to me, he was some big white, slow safety that sucked.

I think Marvell Smith and McFadden were the only good 2nd round picks Cowher made.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:23 pm

Nevermind, he had some other decent picks, Chad Brown, Buckner.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Rocco on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Cowher inherited a team that had had been .500 over its previous 3 years. Tomlin inherited a team that won a Super Bowl and played in an AFC title game in 2 of the last 3 years before he took over. QED.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:25 pm

Troy Loney wrote:Buckner.


And then we traded him away two years later to the Chiefs for a 7th round pick
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:28 pm

Maybe they're both really good coaches, and we should be thankful about each. Crazy that something doesn't have to produce a binary result.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby mac5155 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:30 pm

Big Ben on the Cowboys:
"If they are America's Team, then we are the World's Team"
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:30 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:He whiffed on basically every second round pick he made, I'm sure there could have been some QBs available in those years that would have been better options than the guys they had on their roster.

looking back, some of those 2nd round picks were laughably bad

zo jackson
ricardo colcocococlogogh
jeremy staat
will blackwell


Something Shields, that guys stands out to me, he was some big white, slow safety that sucked.

I think Marvell Smith and McFadden were the only good 2nd round picks Cowher made.



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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby slappybrown on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:39 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I think you're crazy if you believe that Tomlin's resume is superior to Cowher's at this point.


Better winning percentage (his winning percentage right now is the same as Cowher's through six seasons), same Super Bowl record, hasn't made a mess of AFC Championship games against lesser opponents, three division titles in five completed seasons. Tomlin has accomplished in five years what took Cowher 15 years to do.

Come talk to me when Tomlin posts 12 playoff seasons in 15 years, and makes 6 AFC champ games. This argument suggests that anything other than a Super Bowl appearance/win and the results are of little value. Only in PGH.

Rocco's point is pretty powerful as well.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:41 pm

One thing I will say. Up until Bill Cowher won the Super Bowl in Detroit, his tenure was very, very similar to Andy Reid's in Philadelphia, even coming down to the length of time coaching the franchise. Multiple conference championships, minimal SBs, no wins. Consistent winning seasons, but never reaching the pinnacle.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Rocco on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:48 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:One thing I will say. Up until Bill Cowher won the Super Bowl in Detroit, his tenure was very, very similar to Andy Reid's in Philadelphia, even coming down to the length of time coaching the franchise. Multiple conference championships, minimal SBs, no wins. Consistent winning seasons, but never reaching the pinnacle.


Winning championships is really, really hard.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:59 pm

Rocco wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:One thing I will say. Up until Bill Cowher won the Super Bowl in Detroit, his tenure was very, very similar to Andy Reid's in Philadelphia, even coming down to the length of time coaching the franchise. Multiple conference championships, minimal SBs, no wins. Consistent winning seasons, but never reaching the pinnacle.


Winning championships is really, really hard.


Sure is.

To put it in perspective, Andy Reid, who is considered by many pundits to be the pinnacle of regular season success, is 129-90 during his tenure in Philadelphia.

Bill Cowher was 149-90, with a championship.

Give Tomlin 10 more years to see if he can sustain that success long-term.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Tim Thomasen on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:01 pm

I hear the argument on the radio (and everytime that argument gets dismissed for good reason) that Tomlin only won because of Cowher's players. If that's the case, why didn't Cowher win more with Cowher's players?

People forget that despite all the good teams Cowher had, it took him 13 seasons to win the SB (you could make the case that we won because we got alot of favorable calls from the refs) and you and in the process lost a lot of big AFC title games at home, including one in 1994 where they lost to a very beatable Chargers team. Not to mention his last season he mailed it in

Tomlin comes in and within a span of five years has kept the team competitive and made two SB appearances and winning one.

To me, both are good but flawed coaches that I'm happy to say they coached our team.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby Pavel Bure on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:25 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:I hear the argument on the radio (and everytime that argument gets dismissed for good reason) that Tomlin only won because of Cowher's players. If that's the case, why didn't Cowher win more with Cowher's players?

People forget that despite all the good teams Cowher had, it took him 13 seasons to win the SB (you could make the case that we won because we got alot of favorable calls from the refs) and you and in the process lost a lot of big AFC title games at home, including one in 1994 where they lost to a very beatable Chargers team. Not to mention his last season he mailed it in

Tomlin comes in and within a span of five years has kept the team competitive and made two SB appearances and winning one.

To me, both are good but flawed coaches that I'm happy to say they coached our team.

Eh even if the Steelers beat that "very beatable" Chargers team the juggernaut of the Young/Rice 49ers loomed. It didn't matter who came out of the AFC that year. The 49ers were going to crush.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:42 pm

So true. What a boring, boring Super Bowl.
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:04 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:Maybe they're both really good coaches, and we should be thankful about each. Crazy that something doesn't have to produce a binary result.

:thumb:
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby slappybrown on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:09 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Maybe they're both really good coaches, and we should be thankful about each. Crazy that something doesn't have to produce a binary result.

:thumb:

RANK ALL THE THINGS
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby blackjack68 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:19 pm

slappybrown wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Maybe they're both really good coaches, and we should be thankful about each. Crazy that something doesn't have to produce a binary result.

:thumb:

RANK ALL THE THINGS


THANK ALL THE RINGS!
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Re: Are You Ready for Some Football - Steelers/Chargers

Postby LeopardLetang on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:01 am

Pavel Bure wrote:
Tim Thomasen wrote:I hear the argument on the radio (and everytime that argument gets dismissed for good reason) that Tomlin only won because of Cowher's players. If that's the case, why didn't Cowher win more with Cowher's players?

People forget that despite all the good teams Cowher had, it took him 13 seasons to win the SB (you could make the case that we won because we got alot of favorable calls from the refs) and you and in the process lost a lot of big AFC title games at home, including one in 1994 where they lost to a very beatable Chargers team. Not to mention his last season he mailed it in

Tomlin comes in and within a span of five years has kept the team competitive and made two SB appearances and winning one.

To me, both are good but flawed coaches that I'm happy to say they coached our team.

Eh even if the Steelers beat that "very beatable" Chargers team the juggernaut of the Young/Rice 49ers loomed. It didn't matter who came out of the AFC that year. The 49ers were going to crush.


wholeheartedly disagree about crush. would have been a 10-13 point game instead of a 45 or whatever it was.

on the conversation as a whole, tomlin has roethlisberger. tomlin has roethlisberger. tomlin has roethlisberger.

he's a good coach, but, see above
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