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doublem wrote:autism and serious mental illness are a lot different just in the fact how people look at them.
Tim Thomasen wrote:TheHammer24 wrote:The two of you (Schmenguin and Tim Thomasen) do exactly what I counsel against: attach a simple (convenient) answer to an extremely complicated question:
Parents have the ability to treat mental illness if they get the proper help and treatment; thus, it's the parents' fault when a mentally ill individual does something wrong.
This, frankly, boils my blood a little bit. And you do this, in Tim's case, because you have observed two distinct mentally ill individuals, concluded one operates well and the other does not, noticed the parents were different, and then concluded that all you need is parental attention. This is the classic correlation-vs-causation fallacy multiplied by several orders of magnitude.
Mental illness encompasses an extremely broad set of conditions, each of which affect individuals in distinct ways. Evaluating mental illness from your experience with an austistic child (or children), is the equivalent of suggesting some cancer patients could be treated with anti-biotics or fluids because of your experience with cold patients. We recognize the breadth and spectrum of physical disease. Why can't we comprehend an equivalent spectrum for diseases of the mind?
I find it shockingly naive to suggest that parents can fix this problem; in fact, I find it extraordinarily insulting to the parents of mentally ill children. As I said in my post above doublem, we need to quit viewing mental illness through our own mentally competent perspective. We need to understand how the disease affects others. Like I said, how it can literally commandeer your brain. Can parents really right a ship piloted by a disease? Of course, not.
Wow.
First off I hate to break it to you but my mom did help me alot growing up. She went to the school and made them aware of what I had and made support I got the help I needed. She did that, met with mental illness experts and attended a seminar on dealing with a kid with a mental illness. I wouldn't be who I am without her.
Second I am also who I am because even though I have trouble in social situtations, i'm social enough where I can communicate to people and I have a core set of friends as my support system.
Tim Thomasen wrote:doublem wrote:autism and serious mental illness are a lot different just in the fact how people look at them.
Espically in the case of aspergers where you wouldn't know someone has it unless they told you. If you met me, you would just think i'm weird and not suffering from aspergers.
doublem wrote:As a society as a whole we just need more understanding of what mental illness is. we still live in a country where depression is thought to be a weakness. I work in the field and people I work with sometimes don't understand mental illness. I work with stigma fighting groups around the country and let me tell you it's not pretty for people and family members that are ill. These people have no where to turn, there kids are missing, going off meds, homeless. It's like a war out there.
ExPatriatePen wrote:doublem wrote:As a society as a whole we just need more understanding of what mental illness is. we still live in a country where depression is thought to be a weakness. I work in the field and people I work with sometimes don't understand mental illness. I work with stigma fighting groups around the country and let me tell you it's not pretty for people and family members that are ill. These people have no where to turn, there kids are missing, going off meds, homeless. It's like a war out there.
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And Depression is one of the 'milder forms' of mental illness. I had a serious bout nearly twenty years ago. I've been symptom free ever since.
Those couple of years that I battled my depression cost me dearly. In terms of family relationships and in financial terms. I had no idea where to turn, and had no support system to rely on.
Employee Assistance Programs (EAP) are a great start, but I'm definitely one who thinks that mental illness should be treated 'on par' with physical illness.
newarenanow wrote:I remember I used to think mental illness and depression was just a sign of weakness and never understood why people just don't "get over it". In my mind, if all is going well, why be depressed?
newarenanow wrote:Heck, I found out a few years ago I suffer from anxiety. I have nothing to worry about, and everything is going well in my mind, but for some reason, at night, my heart starts going, my mind starts racing, and I just feel very anxious and can't settle down. In my mind, I tell myself I have nothing to worry about, but my body doesn't listen. I don't know.
shmenguin wrote:newarenanow wrote:I remember I used to think mental illness and depression was just a sign of weakness and never understood why people just don't "get over it". In my mind, if all is going well, why be depressed?
i think there's still an old school attitude out there, where you're supposed to just work through your problems instead of getting help via therapy or medication. maybe i'm wrong, but i feel like this is getting better with every generation. but in addition to the "denial" situation, this is another barrier with parental involvement. even if a problem is acknowledged, it's validity will come into question.
newarenanow wrote:I remember I used to think mental illness and depression was just a sign of weakness and never understood why people just don't "get over it". In my mind, if all is going well, why be depressed? I remember when Owen Wilson tried to kill himself or something because he was depressed, I gave a response of "we'll let him, he is a millionaire and has everything, and if he doesn't like it, then just kill yourself" or something like that.
Then one of my best friends went through and is still going through a bout of depression, extreme depression, which has also turned him to alcohol and other substances. This was a guy who was very successful and "normal" for most of his life. But underlying everything, he had a slight case of depression which he held inside from people not close to him for a long time, and then he went through a period where people close were dying, somethings didn't work out, and something clicked and the floodgates opened.
He would try to get help, and he had a very strong support group, but nothing worked. There was just something chemically wrong in his head that he just couldn't get over.
About 7 years later, he still has a strong support group, and after much help, he is better and on track, but can easily fall off the cliff. But there were other members of his family that did not make it and still had the same support. They were just further off.
So until I experienced it personally, I never understood it. But now I kind of do. And not every case is the same. Some are more extreme than others. Some have great support, but do not accept it. Others do and it works out well, and sometimes, the person just can't get better. And yes, there are cases where people just blow off the ill and not care. So it is very complicated and there is not one answer.
Heck, I found out a few years ago I suffer from anxiety. I have nothing to worry about, and everything is going well in my mind, but for some reason, at night, my heart starts going, my mind starts racing, and I just feel very anxious and can't settle down. In my mind, I tell myself I have nothing to worry about, but my body doesn't listen. I don't know.
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:newarenanow wrote:Heck, I found out a few years ago I suffer from anxiety. I have nothing to worry about, and everything is going well in my mind, but for some reason, at night, my heart starts going, my mind starts racing, and I just feel very anxious and can't settle down. In my mind, I tell myself I have nothing to worry about, but my body doesn't listen. I don't know.
You have plenty to worry about. All the good ACC teams are leaving for the big 12, chryst is leaving for wisconsin, and there will never be hockey ever again.
count2infinity wrote:welcome back Doublem, welcome back Trent.
I think that too many people make these cases black and white. It's the mental health issue, it's a parenting issue, it's just that he's a bad person and was going to do this no matter what issue. As with most anything in life it's likely a combination of everything that went into this man doing what he did. It's very likely with how rare these instances are (and they are rare... they are just such large news that people seem to think these to be everyday, every state, every town) there was a perfect storm of external and internal issues with this guy that caused him to lash out in the way he did. I don't blame any one particular thing or person for this, but at the end of the day, he did what he did and he is the one at fault for the situation. Were there contributors? Possibly. Were there people that looked the other way? Most definitely, but as someone said earlier, how many people could have truly known and truly believed he was capable of such an act? Maybe one or two. But could you fault them for not knowing, not thinking, or even imagining he was capable of this? I certainly can't.
count2infinity wrote:welcome back Doublem, welcome back Trent.
I think that too many people make these cases black and white. It's the mental health issue, it's a parenting issue, it's just that he's a bad person and was going to do this no matter what issue. As with most anything in life it's likely a combination of everything that went into this man doing what he did. It's very likely with how rare these instances are (and they are rare... they are just such large news that people seem to think these to be everyday, every state, every town) there was a perfect storm of external and internal issues with this guy that caused him to lash out in the way he did. I don't blame any one particular thing or person for this, but at the end of the day, he did what he did and he is the one at fault for the situation. Were there contributors? Possibly. Were there people that looked the other way? Most definitely, but as someone said earlier, how many people could have truly known and truly believed he was capable of such an act? Maybe one or two. But could you fault them for not knowing, not thinking, or even imagining he was capable of this? I certainly can't.
NBC News @NBCNews Obama on the courage of #Newton: "One kid even said, 'I know karate. It's OK, I will lead the way out.'" #vigil
AlexPKeaton wrote:Dropping in late to this thread. Has the possibility of a re-funding of "softer" types of mental institutions come up? It is a bit disconcerting to me that the media is talking non stop about gun control, when no amount of gun control would have prevented this from happening as he simply stole the guns from someone who would have gotten approved under even the strictest standards. Seems like the media is wasting everyone's time again for ratings.
pittsoccer33 wrote:a psychiatrist was a guest on Limbaugh's show today. she was going over just how hard it is to commit somebody to a mental health institution. basically they have a right to not take medicine and to be "crazy." there is no way to force a mentally ill person to take medicine.
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