Is Time Travel Possible?

[Kraftster]

Yeah, I think the butterfly effect and chaos theory in general are largely misunderstood. The whole "butterfly flaps its wings and causes a hurricane across the globe" is kind of a caricature of the actual theory. The theory is not really open to much debate, the very different consequences within some sort of system as a result of slightly different initial conditions can be (and has been) tested. By no means is it the case that the significant changes that can result from small adjustments must be on the most macro scale possible. Sure there are small events that can have global or even universal consequences, but slight changes on a very micro level may have a relatively significant semi-macro change at a level far below a global one but still sufficiently recognizable.

[shafnutz05]

I certainly don't deny that the theory is plausible, and I understand the logic behind it. I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to "tiptoe through history" as much as the theory suggests you would. Probability-wise, the chances of your routine actions having a sizable mark on history is unlikely. Of course, the more "unnatural" your actions, the better chance you have of fostering radical changes to the future.

[ExPatriatePen]

I certainly don't deny that the theory is plausible, and I understand the logic behind it. I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to "tiptoe through history" as much as the theory suggests you would. Probability-wise, the chances of your routine actions having a sizable mark on history is unlikely. Of course, the more "unnatural" your actions, the better chance you have of fostering radical changes to the future.

Leave it to Shaf to be promoting "unnatural acts"...

[Kraftster]

It would really be impossible to gauge how much one routine act impacts history because it is only by the sum of every small routine act that we ended up right here. And this is really chaos theory. While our world is deterministic, we simply don't have the level of understanding and computational power to determine how much a slight change at any point would have altered history. The ripple effect of, for example, killing a single butterfly that in a prior version of history survived cannot be fully understood.

[PensFanInDC]

For the (very few I'm sure) people that did not get my reference:

Spoiler:

Northern Overexposure

[Gaucho]

It would really be impossible to gauge how much one routine act impacts history because it is only by the sum of every small routine act that we ended up right here. And this is really chaos theory. While our world is deterministic, we simply don't have the level of understanding and computational power to determine how much a slight change at any point would have altered history. The ripple effect of, for example, killing a single butterfly that in a prior version of history survived cannot be fully understood.

I don't anyone suggested tiptoeing through history.

[shmenguin]

I guess it depends on how one defines time travel, but scientifically, time travel into the future is certainly possible. The closest we can get to time travel into the past is peering deep into space and seeing the past.

reverse-engineering the past and creating a simulation that we could experience may be theoretically possible (if you believe that everything is a strict result of prior activity and that nothing is random - which i do), but we don't have the ability to process all the relevant data to figure out the whole script. maybe we will come close to that eventually.

[Rylan]

If everything is scripted wouldn't time travel throw a kink in the system causing a massive collapse of life due to an unexpected instance in the timeline?

[Froggy]

2 answers to that...

1. If it was part of the script, the kinks would be accounted for
2. If its not part of the script, it wouldn't ever happen anyway

[shmenguin]

If everything is scripted wouldn't time travel throw a kink in the system causing a massive collapse of life due to an unexpected instance in the timeline?

in that premise, there was no time travel - just a simulation of past events. though if you "cracked the script", then you could potentially be able to predict the future. i haven't thought about that part of it much - whether or not the entire human race being able to see the future would be some kind of paradox.

[Rylan]

Meh. I also think time is an infinite loop. That every second happens concurrently and our minds allow us to differentiate the seconds. But eventually the loop will restart.

[columbia]

I just filled out an expense report for a work trip.
If it is as torturous as that, no one will want to do it.

[Rylan]

If everything is scripted wouldn't time travel throw a kink in the system causing a massive collapse of life due to an unexpected instance in the timeline?

in that premise, there was no time travel - just a simulation of past events. though if you "cracked the script", then you could potentially be able to predict the future. i haven't thought about that part of it much - whether or not the entire human race being able to see the future would be some kind of paradox.

Fair enough. I was just curious how this "glitch" would affect your views.

I like these types of talks on LGP because they allow for more discussion than strict philosophical talks since anyone can chime in.

[shmenguin]

Meh. I also think time is an infinite loop. That every second happens concurrently and our minds allow us to differentiate the seconds. But eventually the loop will restart.

i like this analogy...

look at the following:

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

1 comes before 2 sequentially, but they exist at the same "time". the same can be said for our own experiences. so i flirt with the belief that everything that has ever happened or will happen occurs at the same time, but we are just witnessing it sequentially with our own "frame rate" (to use a video term).

[Gaucho]

Borges has written some pretty good essays about time and how the arrow never catches the tortoise and stuff like that.

But this is all, eh, mindplay, if that's the word.

[Rylan]

Or what if time is happening before us and all we currently are and perceive being nothing more than memories.

[Idoit40fans]

I assume that was a joke, but if we didn't exist, there would be no perceiving and no memories.

[shafnutz05]

Obviously we don't know for sure how this applies, but the idea of traveling FTL for a year (to me), coming back to Earth, and discovering that forty years have passed gives me anxiety. This relativity principle was touched on pretty well in Dune, but I just can't fathom what that would be like.

[Rylan]

No we exist, just not in "real time." Follows shmenguin's theory on a "scripted" universe. Every thing we feel is happening now has already happened and is either looped back or is delayed.

[canaan]

Hi Guys!, just traveling back in time from February 16, 2013 to let you guys know that the pens are gonna be okay!

[Idoit40fans]

Define okay.

[Gaucho]

Hi Guys!, just traveling back in time from February 16, 2013 to let you guys know that the pens are gonna be okay!

Yay!

[DudeMan2766]

Hi Guys!, just traveling back in time from February 16, 2013 to let you guys know that the pens are gonna be okay!

Not even a month into the season and you can say "Okay" with certainty? Now I'm even more worried than I was before

[PensFanInDC]

Hi Guys!, just traveling back in time from February 16, 2013 to let you guys know that the pens are gonna be okay!

Im going to be in Pittsburgh that day. COINCIDENCE!!!???

[shmenguin]

let's say that determinism is the ultimate truth - that everything that occurs in the universe is merely a result of the events that preceded this. that there is no randomness. there is no free will. you're just acting out a part in a play. i know most people don't agree with this (many absolutely hate this notion), but we're taking a leap here and pretending like this is an established truth. go with it for a sec...

what does this do to the concept of time? if something has a beginning, middle and end that has already been written, doesn't that mean that everything has either already occurred or is constantly occurring at the same time? if you were somehow on the outside of the universe looking in (again, go with it for a sec...), you would be looking at a book that you could flip through in any order at any pace you want - not a live TV feed that reveals itself only with time elapsing.