USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Pitts on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:06 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:this seriously makes me reconsider my netflix stategery. thats the only thing i use mail for.

Sunday: no mail

Monday: return movie to Netflix

Tuesday: Netflix receives my movie, sends me another one (presumably new release - they come out on Tuesday)

Wednesday: I receive my new release in the mail

Thursday: send it back

Friday: Netflix receives it and sends me another one. New releases also come out on Friday too.

Saturday: Get my second movie of the week.

Now what?

Go outside and exert some energy? :)
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby mac5155 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:11 pm

I'm not suggesting the usps go under. I'm suggesting they run their operation like a business. Perhaps the reason they are so inefficient is because there are post offices every mile and a half, staffed by 2 individuals, and mail men who work from 7-3. Ever ask a fedex guy his hours? He gets to work at 6 and hopes to be done by 5. Same usually goes for ups. Consolidate routes, consolidate post offices, and then we'll talk.

Also, fedex is the usps' biggest customer and vice versa with smartpost services. If they went under, fedex prices would rise as well.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:18 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:I'm not saying the USPS is perfect. The system is beyond broken. But saying, "Well, look at UPS and Fedex, they're doing great" is laughable. The USPS is failing because of several reasons and very few of them can be "fixed".

If most people in America need to send a package or buy a book of stamps, they can go to the local USPS post office which is oftentimes less than 5 miles away. If they want to send a package via UPS or FedEx, they usually have to drive 25 miles or more. I'd love to send more stuff via FedEx but I'm not driving there every day or week when I can drive 1 mile down the road. Plus the last time I went to the FedEx shipping center they had 1 clerk working and I waited over 30 minutes while she checked out the 5 people in front of me. And they didn't even have any boxes.

UPS and FedEx don't stop at everyone's house every day. So if someone wants to send little Jimmy a birthday card or return their Netflix DVD, they can put it in their mailbox and know that the postal carrier will be by to pick it up.

The taxpayer doesn't provide me that kind of convenience (and 50 cent stamps) from FedEx or UPS.


FIFY.


Check your facts... USPS gets $0 from tax payers...
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:25 pm

mac5155 wrote:I'm not suggesting the usps go under. I'm suggesting they run their operation like a business. Perhaps the reason they are so inefficient is because there are post offices every mile and a half, staffed by 2 individuals, and mail men who work from 7-3. Ever ask a fedex guy his hours? He gets to work at 6 and hopes to be done by 5. Same usually goes for ups. Consolidate routes, consolidate post offices, and then we'll talk.

Also, fedex is the usps' biggest customer and vice versa with smartpost services. If they went under, fedex prices would rise as well.


EXACTLY! FedEx and UPS have the air fleet, and USPS runs the ground game in most areas.

Also, they do run like a business, and a big part of their competitive advantage is their massive network and reach. Lots of facts here:http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/welcome.htm
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:42 pm

mac5155 wrote:I'm not suggesting the usps go under. I'm suggesting they run their operation like a business. Perhaps the reason they are so inefficient is because there are post offices every mile and a half, staffed by 2 individuals, and mail men who work from 7-3. Ever ask a fedex guy his hours? He gets to work at 6 and hopes to be done by 5. Same usually goes for ups. Consolidate routes, consolidate post offices, and then we'll talk.

Also, fedex is the usps' biggest customer and vice versa with smartpost services. If they went under, fedex prices would rise as well.


The USPS is crippled by congress. Congress determines postage increases, whether they can close post offices, etc. And if congress or the USPS even hint at making changes, all the grannies and people throw a fit and force them to back down. It's hard to run a business when you're controlled by congress, which is controlled by the people who are going to "suffer" from cuts, rate increases, etc.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:42 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:I'm not saying the USPS is perfect. The system is beyond broken. But saying, "Well, look at UPS and Fedex, they're doing great" is laughable. The USPS is failing because of several reasons and very few of them can be "fixed".

If most people in America need to send a package or buy a book of stamps, they can go to the local USPS post office which is oftentimes less than 5 miles away. If they want to send a package via UPS or FedEx, they usually have to drive 25 miles or more. I'd love to send more stuff via FedEx but I'm not driving there every day or week when I can drive 1 mile down the road. Plus the last time I went to the FedEx shipping center they had 1 clerk working and I waited over 30 minutes while she checked out the 5 people in front of me. And they didn't even have any boxes.

UPS and FedEx don't stop at everyone's house every day. So if someone wants to send little Jimmy a birthday card or return their Netflix DVD, they can put it in their mailbox and know that the postal carrier will be by to pick it up.

The taxpayer doesn't provide me that kind of convenience (and 50 cent stamps) from FedEx or UPS.


FIFY.


Check your facts... USPS gets $0 from tax payers...

Yadi, yadi, this is a fun stat to cite, but USPS lives by its government-granted monopoly on the daily deliverance of mail. Because of it, private companies who could provide better service (yes, FedEx and UPS would have cheap letter delivery if they could) aren't able to do so. Thus, we're stuck with inferior service and that likely costs more.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:48 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:Yadi, yadi, this is a fun stat to cite, but USPS lives by its government-granted monopoly on the daily deliverance of mail. Because of it, private companies who could provide better service (yes, FedEx and UPS would have cheap letter delivery in major metropolitan areas if they could but they wouldn't touch rural areas with a nine foot pole because that's where all the money is lost) aren't able to do so. Thus, we're stuck with inferior service and that likely costs more.


FIFY ;)

So if the FedEx or UPS driver works from 6am to about 5pm, delivering his packages, how long would he have to work to pick up and deliver mail to every household and business too?
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:10 pm

Obviously. But why should the 90% of Americans that live in metropolitan areas bear the cost of rural people's decision to live far away? If that's something worth subsidizing, just do it directly---give them a $100/year (maybe $1,000? who knows) mail write off on their 1040. Don't punish everyone by sticking them with USPS.

But why is that something we should subsidize? If we need farming, they'll pass that cost onto us--as they should--through higher produce. We get cheaper mail, more expensive produce, but ultimately competition produces better services for everyone. Win, win, win. I see no value, other than individual utility, in someone's decision to live in a rural area for their own pleasure. Let them pay for that utility. Plus that will incentivize more cost-efficient behavior: e-mail, sending a lot a letters at once. Again, all good behavior.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby mac5155 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:14 pm

The higher cost would most likely phase out a lot of junk mail. The mail you need would likely come from people that you owe money. So they can offer a reduction on your bill for accepting paperless billing. No more credit card offers daily. Less mail would mean people could go 2-3 days at a time without receiving mail. My point is it'd take longer, most likely create more private sector jobs, and taxpayers wouldn't be paying the workers pensions.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:19 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:Obviously. But why should the 90% of Americans that live in metropolitan areas bear the cost of rural people's decision to live far away? If that's something worth subsidizing, just do it directly---give them a $100/year (maybe $1,000? who knows) mail write off on their 1040. Don't punish everyone by sticking them with USPS.

But why is that something we should subsidize? If we need farming, they'll pass that cost onto us--as they should--through higher produce. We get cheaper mail, more expensive produce, but ultimately competition produces better services for everyone. Win, win, win. I see no value, other than individual utility, in someone's decision to live in a rural area for their own pleasure. Let them pay for that utility. Plus that will incentivize more cost-efficient behavior: e-mail, sending a lot a letters at once. Again, all good behavior.


Clearly taxpayers shouldn't subsidize anything. Everything should be privately run. No taxpayer money for police departments (unless they can turn a profit), etc. I've never needed the services of the police so why should I have to subsidize the police force? Ambulance services and paramedics - same deal. Private companies could do everything they do better and turn a profit. Win/win.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:25 am

Hockeynut! wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Obviously. But why should the 90% of Americans that live in metropolitan areas bear the cost of rural people's decision to live far away? If that's something worth subsidizing, just do it directly---give them a $100/year (maybe $1,000? who knows) mail write off on their 1040. Don't punish everyone by sticking them with USPS.

But why is that something we should subsidize? If we need farming, they'll pass that cost onto us--as they should--through higher produce. We get cheaper mail, more expensive produce, but ultimately competition produces better services for everyone. Win, win, win. I see no value, other than individual utility, in someone's decision to live in a rural area for their own pleasure. Let them pay for that utility. Plus that will incentivize more cost-efficient behavior: e-mail, sending a lot a letters at once. Again, all good behavior.


Clearly taxpayers shouldn't subsidize anything. Everything should be privately run. No taxpayer money for police departments (unless they can turn a profit), etc. I've never needed the services of the police so why should I have to subsidize the police force? Ambulance services and paramedics - same deal. Private companies could do everything they do better and turn a profit. Win/win.

Because advocating for a private postal service and subsidies for rural dwellers, is tantamount to advocating for complete privatization of the entire government. I tried to address your concerns but demonstrate why privatization was better even if it required government intervention to serve certain minority interests (i.e., rural dwellers). I don't approach these questions as an unyielding Libertarian like Guiness. I just find the free market is more efficient---i.e., it creates a larger pie. If the market creates too many losers, then we can redistribute, but it's better to redistributed for a larger pie than to rig the system, shrink the pie, and redistribute inefficiently (i.e., metropolitan dwellers, subsidize junk mailers to rural areas).

For what it's worth, 50% of the services you mentioned are generally privatized in the United States. :scared:
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:30 am

I'd like to know how many libertarians would complain about it, once their door to door mail service was ended.

Hint: the answer is many.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Hockeynut! on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 am

Why not privatize everything? I never said that would be a bad thing. Look at the money wasted on maintaining highways, schools, etc. I'd be happy to pay to drive on whatever roads I used if it means not paying taxes. I don't have any children so I shouldn't have to subsidize schools. There's no need to just stop with the USPS.

Back to the main topic and the theory that Fedex/UPS would love to deliver cheap daily mail - I wonder if that's true. FedEx wants to cut billions in expenditures this year. How many more drivers would they have to hire to collect and deliver mail, even if it was only in major cities. I mean really, how many people get a package on any given day? 1%? 5% tops? If the FedEx guy starts work at 6am and quits at 5pm when they're delivering only to that pct of the population, how do they make money when they have to service 100%? I just don't see where the money is, but maybe I'm missing something.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:44 am

You're not missing anything.
It's a service that can't be replicated by the private sector...As you have just pointed out.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby redwill on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:58 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:The taxpayer doesn't provide me that kind of convenience (and 50 cent stamps) from FedEx or UPS.


FIFY.


Check your facts... USPS gets $0 from tax payers...

Yadi, yadi


Haha. End of conversation.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:27 am

columbia wrote:You're not missing anything.
It's a service that can't be replicated by the private sector...As you have just pointed out.

That's insane. The federal government (the most inefficient producer) has managed stay in the black by giving itself a monopoly in performing the service. What in the world makes you think FedEx couldn't do so profitably? It has all the infrastructure in place. It need only higher more trucks and streamline routes to over duplicity, while it would add all the letter revenue.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:28 am

columbia wrote:I'd like to know how many libertarians would complain about it, once their door to door mail service was ended.

Hint: the answer is many.

Absolutely. I hate the label because of that. I am way to open to income redistribution to be considered a libertarian though.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby DocEmrick on Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:33 am

For those who's lives may be affected by the lack of Netflix movies, may I make a suggestion

Spoiler:
Image

Image
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby Puffymuffin on Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:56 am

They canceled mail delivery on Mondays here, since it was the least busy day and they usually hadn't sorted all the mail that was posted on Saturday and Sunday. Saturdays is by the busiest day for mail and package delivery here, but I guess they have other companies for packages in the US?
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:29 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
columbia wrote:You're not missing anything.
It's a service that can't be replicated by the private sector...As you have just pointed out.

That's insane. The federal government (the most inefficient producer) has managed stay in the black by giving itself a monopoly in performing the service. What in the world makes you think FedEx couldn't do so profitably? It has all the infrastructure in place. It need only higher more trucks and streamline routes to over duplicity, while it would add all the letter revenue.


Because there's no profit to be made from stopping at every address in the country, so someone's Aunt Martha in Maine can send them a birthday card.
FedEx and UPS offer a different service than the USPS.

You can argue that the USPS shouldn't exist at all, but to claim that the full scope of their services could be done more cheaply in the private sector is just silly.
Last edited by columbia on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby RJW76 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:45 am

Apologies in advance for the length of this post.

It's very seldom reported in the news media that the main reason for the billions in losses every year is the fact that USPS is required to pre-fund 5 billion dollars a year in healthcare benefits for retirees. This started in FY 2007 with an act of Congress and it is bleeding USPS dry. It calls for 5 billion a year for the next 10 years so retirees' benefits can be taken care of for the next 75 years. I understand that's it is a great benefit for me to have health care for the rest of my life, but that is way too much to pay in such a short time and we WILL NOT make it to the end of that. In fact, we blew off the payment this year. It's awfully strange how the financial problems of this organization started right around that time. The economy tanking soon after really hurt. But going there every night, I can tell you that I've never been busier, and I bet every carrier here will tell you they've never been slammed like they've been the last few years. That's a good thing as I really think mail will never go away. How would any company survive starting out five billion in the whole before they sell a single unit of something? The fact that I get a paycheck every other week still amazes the crap out of me. :D

Think about it. This place has been around since literally the beginning of America. It was created by Ben freaking Franklin. It has survived how many recessions, panics, depression and FOUR YEARS OF MCKINLEYNOMICS! (Sorry, can't help a Simpsons reference). While the internet argument is valid as far as online bill pay is concerned, and the Netflix volume has plummeted since they streamed more and that dumb 30-day new release rule. Blockbuster is all but gone and Game Fly hasn't really taken off.

And people complain about junk mail, but we just deliver it. Mailers are also given huge discounts, and I wish they would pick up a little more of the cost instead of regular people (sound familiar?). And if it really didn't work for companies, why would they still send it out after all these years?

Yes, mail volume is down across the board (according to our postmaster) and yes, there is insane waste within the organization. That story tifosi told earlier is not only 100% true, but I'll add that it took probably 3-5 people making 100+k a year to sit in 400 hours worth of meetings and use $GodKnowsHowMuch worth of charts/software/government cars/fuel/hotel rooms to determine that those four steps could save them $27 in "productivity" over the course of however long. Then at the end of the year, they probably raked in a cool $10k bonus for a job well done. Multiply that by everywhere. I think they spend more money on route adjustments/function 4's (which are basically, how can we make going to the post office more of a nightmare for out customers?) than actually figuring ways to be more innovative and stay with the global/digital world).

Oh, and the clerks/union aren't absolved here either. There's more than I care to admit people just sitting on their asses literally doing nothing or can't be freaking bothered to show up for work that the union is spending my dues protecting. So yes, a house cleaning is in order. Sad thing is, with my lack of seniority, I'll be the first one swept out the door. That's why I'm looking into going back to finish school and looking at a possible new career. I just don't see my retirement from this place ever happening. It's scary but it's true.

I just don't get why they want it dead after 240 years. Actually I do, It's worth billions and billions, and people would love to get their hands on it. But alright Hammer, you just go ahead and believe that it will be better and cheaper than it is now.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby JS© on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:24 am

RJW76 wrote:Apologies in advance for the length of this post.

It's very seldom reported in the news media that the main reason for the billions in losses every year is the fact that USPS is required to pre-fund 5 billion dollars a year in healthcare benefits for retirees. This started in FY 2007 with an act of Congress and it is bleeding USPS dry. It calls for 5 billion a year for the next 10 years so retirees' benefits can be taken care of for the next 75 years. I understand that's it is a great benefit for me to have health care for the rest of my life, but that is way too much to pay in such a short time and we WILL NOT make it to the end of that. In fact, we blew off the payment this year. It's awfully strange how the financial problems of this organization started right around that time. The economy tanking soon after really hurt. But going there every night, I can tell you that I've never been busier, and I bet every carrier here will tell you they've never been slammed like they've been the last few years. That's a good thing as I really think mail will never go away. How would any company survive starting out five billion in the whole before they sell a single unit of something? The fact that I get a paycheck every other week still amazes the crap out of me. :D

Think about it. This place has been around since literally the beginning of America. It was created by Ben freaking Franklin. It has survived how many recessions, panics, depression and FOUR YEARS OF MCKINLEYNOMICS! (Sorry, can't help a Simpsons reference). While the internet argument is valid as far as online bill pay is concerned, and the Netflix volume has plummeted since they streamed more and that dumb 30-day new release rule. Blockbuster is all but gone and Game Fly hasn't really taken off.

And people complain about junk mail, but we just deliver it. Mailers are also given huge discounts, and I wish they would pick up a little more of the cost instead of regular people (sound familiar?). And if it really didn't work for companies, why would they still send it out after all these years?

Yes, mail volume is down across the board (according to our postmaster) and yes, there is insane waste within the organization. That story tifosi told earlier is not only 100% true, but I'll add that it took probably 3-5 people making 100+k a year to sit in 400 hours worth of meetings and use $GodKnowsHowMuch worth of charts/software/government cars/fuel/hotel rooms to determine that those four steps could save them $27 in "productivity" over the course of however long. Then at the end of the year, they probably raked in a cool $10k bonus for a job well done. Multiply that by everywhere. I think they spend more money on route adjustments/function 4's (which are basically, how can we make going to the post office more of a nightmare for out customers?) than actually figuring ways to be more innovative and stay with the global/digital world).

Oh, and the clerks/union aren't absolved here either. There's more than I care to admit people just sitting on their asses literally doing nothing or can't be freaking bothered to show up for work that the union is spending my dues protecting. So yes, a house cleaning is in order. Sad thing is, with my lack of seniority, I'll be the first one swept out the door. That's why I'm looking into going back to finish school and looking at a possible new career. I just don't see my retirement from this place ever happening. It's scary but it's true.

I just don't get why they want it dead after 240 years. Actually I do, It's worth billions and billions, and people would love to get their hands on it. But alright Hammer, you just go ahead and believe that it will be better and cheaper than it is now.


Nice post.

Another thing to add is that for as much as bulk mail sucks, it is actually responsible for 1/4 of the PO's revenue

http://stateimpact.npr.org/new-hampshir ... l-service/ or more specifically http://about.usps.com/future-postal-ser ... s-2011.pdf (page 5)
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:28 am

Yup. Mismanagement galore.
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby RJW76 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:40 am

I also think that Saturday is a bad day to cut. It's a pretty high volume day for delivery. Not to mention the perception people will have that they can't send Priority/Express mail (not being cut at all, but USPS won't be clear about it I guarantee it) .

So on Monday you will get three days worth of mail. Sunday night/Monday morning is heavy, and on Monday Holidays, it will be four days worth of mail for one carrier to deliver. I hope they plan for this (they won't), or those carriers better have flashlights added into their uniform allowance.

It should be Tuesday, the lightest day of the week. But I guess people will have to adjust their mailings accordingly. Or just use Fed Ex and pay the high costs. But when Fed Ex sees the increase in demand for their services, they'll LOWER their costs, right?
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Re: USPS to end Saturday mail delivery

Postby canaan on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:12 am

heres an idea:

the USPS should provide a free PO BOX for all citizens with the option of paying a monthly fee or annual fee for the privilege of having it delivered to their home.
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