Pope to Resign?

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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby columbia on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:57 pm

:pop:
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby since1970 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:03 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Can I go for King of England? I don't want to have to make the changes that would negate the upside I was looking for.


Sorry, since we have a Queen now, then Queen it is, so just man up, tuck it, tape it, it is England. The land of men who like to dress like women, so nobody will care........
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:04 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#Popes_1590_to_present

The Prophecy of the Popes, attributed to Saint Malachy, is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with current pope Benedict XVI's successor, a pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.


DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:12 pm

What I don't get is Popes following the prophecy. Isn't self-fulfilling, since the majority of them probably know?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:15 pm

MRandall25 wrote:What I don't get is Popes following the prophecy. Isn't self-fulfilling, since the majority of them probably know?


Yeah that's been my beef with it since the day I heard about it.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:19 pm

since1970 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Can I go for King of England? I don't want to have to make the changes that would negate the upside I was looking for.


Sorry, since we have a Queen now, then Queen it is, so just man up, tuck it, tape it, it is England. The land of men who like to dress like women, so nobody will care........


I'll take pope then.





EDIT: When I read that before posting it, I thought it said "I'll take poop".
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby columbia on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:35 pm

columbia's friend wrote:Being raised very Catholic and waking up to the news that the Pope is "retiring" is like waking up to the news that the Pope is a Golden Retriever. The Pope doesn't "retire."
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:38 pm

I am not too familiar with Catholic canon. Is the Pope essentially bucking God's word? Is he damned?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby CBear3 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:45 pm

Shaf, its a wonderfully tangled web. If the Pope is ordained by God, its kind of hard to just "retire."
However papal infalability is great, because when Celestine decided he wanted to "retire" he wrote that ability into Canon Law.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Tomas on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:17 pm

newarenanow wrote:
columbia wrote:When I went to Catholic school, it was "and also with you."

When did the change happen?


Like 2 or 3 years ago, they changed a bunch of stuff during mass. I still don't know it.


But this change applies to just Catholics, right? (At least) Presbyterians still use "and also with you."
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby penny lane on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:45 pm

columbia wrote:
columbia's friend wrote:Being raised very Catholic and waking up to the news that the Pope is "retiring" is like waking up to the news that the Pope is a Golden Retriever. The Pope doesn't "retire."


as somebody earlier wrote; JP II gave us view of a person, with illness and disability, trying to maintain his position with dignity. I still think of this Pope as Cardinal Ratzinger; maybe he has an illness that will continue to cause him to be unable to continue the traveling , writing and day - to -day appointments.
He wants a successor in place... if we have faith to believe, then we the faith to believe his decision will be good for the Church.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur ... video.html

a few comments from former Bishop of Pgh, Donald Wuerl~ now a Cardinal in Wash DC.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Guinness on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Just saw this posted elsewhere:

Q: Have you thought of resigning?

A: When the danger is great one must not run away. For that reason, now [2010] is certainly not the time to resign. Precisely at a time like this one must stand fast and endure the difficult situation. That is my view. One can resign at a peaceful moment or when one simply cannot go on. But one must not run away from the danger and say that someone else should do it.

Q: Is it possible then to imagine a situation in which you consider a resignation by the Pope appropriate?

A: Yes. If a Pope clearly recognizes that he is no longer physically, psychologically, and spiritually capable of handling the duties of his office, then he has the right and, under some circumstances, also an obligation to resign.


— From Light of the World, Benedict XVI’s 2010 interview with Peter Seewald


That certainly lends credence to the "health-related" resignation.

Given the rarity of this, I'm still kind of skeptical... Who knows. The next few weeks should be interesting.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby npv708 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:26 pm

I understand the health concerns behind the resignation, but I just still can't believe he's retiring. That is ridiculous. I actually think it has a lot less to do with any scandal and a lot more to do with a lack of respect of the Papacy. As Guiness alluded to earlier is pretty spot on,

But the election of a pope through the conclave of Cardinals is considered to be ordained by God. That is - or SHOULD be - no small matter; it isn't unreasonable to suggest that this resignation is then in a sense a rejection of what God has ordained.


Being a practicing Catholic, this was a huge shock to me and came as something that is just wrong to me.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby JS© on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:31 pm

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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:09 pm

Guinness wrote:To add to the above, the pope who resigned in 1415 did so to resolve the Great Schism, as I've been reading today.
Therefore, the only pope who ever just resigned without a question of corrpution or conflict within the Church would have been Celestine in 1294.
This is almost as unprecedented as it gets.

And Celestine was an unwillingly elected, old hermit of a monk who only served 5 months before he resigned and was then imprisoned until death by his successor. This truly is as unprecedented as it gets.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Shyster on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:54 pm

I’m not Catholic, but I’ve always had an interest in the history of the papacy. Perhaps this could be the trigger for a greater discussion of succession scenarios for the Pope? The Pope is not merely the Catholic priest with the fanciest getup; he’s the spiritual and administrative head of a huge globe-spanning organization that it worth billions of dollars, owns thousands of properties, and has workers in every corner of the Earth. It is a good idea for the chief executive of such an organization to be so old as to potentially suffer from dementia or even worse disabilities? Or what happens if the Pope suffers some medical event that leaves him still alive but totally disabled? For example, former Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon suffered massive cerebral hemorrhage back in January 2006 that left him in a vegetative state. It’s now more than seven years later and Mr. Sharon is still alive, albeit only though artificial life support. What if something similar happened to the Pope? Would it be acceptable for a Pope to continue to hold the office for many years while he is functionally brain dead, is being kept alive by machines, and has not the slightest ability to perform the duties of the office?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby npv708 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:03 pm

Shyster wrote: What if something similar happened to the Pope? Would it be acceptable for a Pope to continue to hold the office for many years while he is functionally brain dead, is being kept alive by machines, and has not the slightest ability to perform the duties of the office?


It would be unlikely that the Pope would be willing to be kept on life support, as it would be in direct conflict with the teachings of the Roman Catholic church.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:17 pm

npv708 wrote:
Shyster wrote: What if something similar happened to the Pope? Would it be acceptable for a Pope to continue to hold the office for many years while he is functionally brain dead, is being kept alive by machines, and has not the slightest ability to perform the duties of the office?

It would be unlikely that the Pope would be willing to be kept on life support, as it would be in direct conflict with the teachings of the Roman Catholic church.

:?:

In a brief document approved by Pope Benedict XVI, the Vatican said it was generally a moral obligation to provide food and water to patients in a vegetative state.
Nutrition and hydration, even by artificial means, cannot simply be terminated because doctors have determined that a person will never recover consciousness, the Vatican said


http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0705229.htm
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Shyster on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:17 pm

npv708 wrote:It would be unlikely that the Pope would be willing to be kept on life support, as it would be in direct conflict with the teachings of the Roman Catholic church.

I stand corrected. But I think there are objections to the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration? Let’s say the Pope has a stoke that destroys his higher brain functions but leaves him able to breathe on his own. So long as nutrition and hydration are provided, he can continue to live. If nutrition and hydration are withdrawn, he would die of starvation and dehydration, not any underlying condition. Under those circumstances, I think the Church would label the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration as impermissible euthanasia.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Eismann on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:18 pm

The Pope resigned with the Catholics. Terms of the agreement were not released, but are believed to include infallibility and Pope mobile clauses.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby 71Aj66ax87 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:32 pm

Eismann wrote:The Pope resigned with the Catholics. Terms of the agreement were not released, but are believed to include infallibility and Pope mobile clauses.


I heard he is in very poor health and that's the reason for him stepping down.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Rocco on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:39 pm

So could he contribute more than Boychuk?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:44 pm

Pope has re-signed so that he can begin his feud with the Undertaker. It's the holiest of holies vs. The Dead Man in a Holy Trinity match. To win you must pin, submit, and put your opponent over the ropes royal rumble style. Who will win? Tombstone vs. The Missionary Postion Submission. Match of the year. WRESTLEMANIA!!!!
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby mac5155 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:46 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
columbia wrote:When I went to Catholic school, it was "and also with you."

When did the change happen?


Like 2 or 3 years ago, they changed a bunch of stuff during mass. I still don't know it.


Don't they have you leave after the initial announcements and go downstairs to the youth worship service?


Not in catholic church.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:56 pm

71Aj66ax87 wrote:
Eismann wrote:The Pope resigned with the Catholics. Terms of the agreement were not released, but are believed to include infallibility and Pope mobile clauses.


I heard he is in very poor health and that's the reason for him stepping down.

Last I heard, he was in the best shape of his life.

:pop:
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