Pope to Resign?

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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:58 pm

mac5155 wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
columbia wrote:When I went to Catholic school, it was "and also with you."

When did the change happen?


Like 2 or 3 years ago, they changed a bunch of stuff during mass. I still don't know it.


Don't they have you leave after the initial announcements and go downstairs to the youth worship service?


Not in catholic church.


They do (at St. Sebastian's, anyway) have a children's service, which starts before the 1st reading and ends around the presentation of the gifts.

However, the announcements are generally saved right until the mass is about to be dismissed.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:58 pm

I'm Catholic, but I do think it's weird that Pope John Paul stayed with the papacy until he died then Pope Benedict is quitting while still in somewhat good health
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:00 pm

SolidSnake wrote:I'm Catholic, but I do think it's weird that Pope John Paul stayed with the papacy until he died then Pope Benedict is quitting while still in somewhat good health


Every other Pope since Gregory XII in 1415 stayed until they died, not just JP II
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:02 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm Catholic, but I do think it's weird that Pope John Paul stayed with the papacy until he died then Pope Benedict is quitting while still in somewhat good health


Every other Pope since Gregory XII in 1415 stayed until they died, not just JP II

I know that's why I think it's strange that Pope Benedict isn't doing the same
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby obhave on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:24 pm

That's why I think he has some bad mental deterioration (Alzheimers) that may make it impossible to be Pope.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Guinness on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:02 pm

npv708 wrote:I understand the health concerns behind the resignation, but I just still can't believe he's retiring. That is ridiculous. I actually think it has a lot less to do with any scandal and a lot more to do with a lack of respect of the Papacy. As Guiness alluded to earlier is pretty spot on,

But the election of a pope through the conclave of Cardinals is considered to be ordained by God. That is - or SHOULD be - no small matter; it isn't unreasonable to suggest that this resignation is then in a sense a rejection of what God has ordained.


Being a practicing Catholic, this was a huge shock to me and came as something that is just wrong to me.


I haven't attended mass in years. I've been attending and considering joining a protestant church for a couple years now, and have largely "resigned" from Catholicism myself, at this point, largely because the hierarchical structure contradicts my understanding of my relation to God, but also in no small part due to the abuse scandal. But the "cultural" Catholic in me remains utterly gob-smacked over this. As I was thinking about it on my way home from my karate class, it dawned on me that, given the apparent traditionalist, conservative perspective Benedict brought to the papacy, this resignation is all the more shocking.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Bioshock on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:08 pm

SolidSnake wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm Catholic, but I do think it's weird that Pope John Paul stayed with the papacy until he died then Pope Benedict is quitting while still in somewhat good health


Every other Pope since Gregory XII in 1415 stayed until they died, not just JP II

I know that's why I think it's strange that Pope Benedict isn't doing the same


I think it's setting a good example personally. Shows you don't have to die to quit the job. Can pass it on to someone more able and thus extinguishing the taboo of quitting early. I think it's really responsible of himself.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:18 pm

After the earthquake in Aquilla in 2009, Benedict left the pallium he wore at his inauguration on Celestine V's tomb.

Image

I think that this may indeed be a long planned move to change the way papal succession will be handled going forward.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby mac5155 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:26 pm

Bioshock wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm Catholic, but I do think it's weird that Pope John Paul stayed with the papacy until he died then Pope Benedict is quitting while still in somewhat good health


Every other Pope since Gregory XII in 1415 stayed until they died, not just JP II

I know that's why I think it's strange that Pope Benedict isn't doing the same


I think it's setting a good example personally. Shows you don't have to die to quit the job. Can pass it on to someone more able and thus extinguishing the taboo of quitting early. I think it's really responsible of himself.


Unfortunately most that I have dealt with in my (albeit short) life have been super "stuck-in-the-past" with regards to tradition. This has caused me to venture away from the church and question my beliefs.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Kaizer on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:32 am

I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:36 am

Kaizer wrote:I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.


Do you care about the President?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby redwill on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:56 am

MRandall25 wrote:
Kaizer wrote:I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.


Do you care about the President?


Ask again when every Catholic gets the right to vote for the Pope.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:06 am

redwill wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Kaizer wrote:I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.


Do you care about the President?


Ask again when every Catholic gets the right to vote for the Pope.


That's not the point I'm making. He is, at the very basics, the leader of the Catholic Church. Period. That's why people care.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:10 am

actually the american people do not directly vote for president either. they vote to assign electoral college delegates from their state. the electoral college then meets to elect the president, in a similar fashion to how the college of cardinals, representing (for better or worse) their assigned parishes throughout the world meets to appoint a new pope. i know this argument is a bit of a reach, but feel it must be pointed out to show you are not as free as you may think you are.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby redwill on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:15 am

:lol:
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Spangler on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:18 am

tifosi77 wrote:This Pope has been directly implicated in covering up an almost systemic level of child abuse within the Catholic church. Cardinal Ratzinger, as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith*, personally directed the inter-dioceses transfers of priests that had been accused of molesting children to avoid the public embarrassment of civil and criminal proceedings. No one knows more about the breadth and depth of the Church's cover ups in these cases than Pope Benedict. That he was ever elected Pope is equal parts baffling and unsurprising..... which is a difficult trick to pull off, honestly.


I take it you saw HBO's documentary about the church sex abuse scandals?

I found it to be incredibly disturbing how the church has treated it all these years. What I found even more shocking is that John Paul II, a guy some were trying to push into sainthood, blatantly ignored the continual sexual abuse done buy a cardinal (I forget his name) who was one of his closest advisors.



It's interesting hearing my grandma/older relatives talk about priests. They always talk about them with a high regard. Based on some comments in the HBO documentary, I appears that's how people viewed members of clergy back then. I talk to priests like they are any normal person. It not that I don't respect them, it's just not a big deal if they talk to me. (does a triple negative cancel out a double negative?)


On a completely off topic note, I'm surprised the media wasn't up in arms about the fact you had to assassinate the pope in Assassin's Creed 2.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:20 am

Spangler wrote:On a completely off topic note, I'm surprised the media wasn't up in arms about the fact you had to assassinate the pope in Assassin's Creed 2.


Probably because the majority of them couldn't give a rat's ass unless the Pope was in a scandal of some sorts. How many times have you seen the Pope in the news that DOESN'T have mention of the abuse scandals?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:23 am

Spangler wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:This Pope has been directly implicated in covering up an almost systemic level of child abuse within the Catholic church. Cardinal Ratzinger, as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith*, personally directed the inter-dioceses transfers of priests that had been accused of molesting children to avoid the public embarrassment of civil and criminal proceedings. No one knows more about the breadth and depth of the Church's cover ups in these cases than Pope Benedict. That he was ever elected Pope is equal parts baffling and unsurprising..... which is a difficult trick to pull off, honestly.


I take it you saw HBO's documentary about the church sex abuse scandals?

I found it to be incredibly disturbing how the church has treated it all these years. What I found even more shocking is that John Paul II, a guy some were trying to push into sainthood, blatantly ignored the continual sexual abuse done buy a cardinal (I forget his name) who was one of his closest advisors.



It's interesting hearing my grandma/older relatives talk about priests. They always talk about them with a high regard. Based on some comments in the HBO documentary, I appears that's how people viewed members of clergy back then. I talk to priests like they are any normal person. It not that I don't respect them, it's just not a big deal if they talk to me. (does a triple negative cancel out a double negative?)


On a completely off topic note, I'm surprised the media wasn't up in arms about the fact you had to assassinate the pope in Assassin's Creed 2.


I thought he was just a cardinal
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:20 am

Paterno and the Pope, a new series coming at you from the CW. This week's episode - with the Pope retiring, Joe Paterno gives him advice on the upcoming Freeh report. Will the Pope lose his hat or will he pull a Menendez and quickly become a US senator to escape criticism, this week on Paterno and the Pope.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:58 am

I don't really care who the new pope is, as long as he doesn't ban those sweet uniforms. Amirite?
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:03 am

shafnutz05 wrote:I don't really care who the new pope is. Amirite?


yes
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby ville5 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:37 am

Kaizer wrote:I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.

I find it hard to believe that there are people who don't realize that organized religion, especially Roman Catholiic, are led by evil, corrupt, self-serving cabals. Who are the antithesis of JC's teachings. And who over time have changed the Bible to correspond to their own agendas.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:41 am

ville5 wrote:
Kaizer wrote:I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.

I find it hard to believe that there are people who don't realize that organized religion, especially Roman Catholiic, are led by evil, corrupt, self-serving cabals. Who are the antithesis of JC's teachings. And who over time have changed the Bible to correspond to their own agendas.


I agree with a lot of this post except I wouldn't call it the "antithesis" as it's not 100% opposite of Christ's teachings. I also wouldn't agree that they changed the Bible. I would argue that they misinterpret it. But these are just my opinions.
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Re: Pope to Resign?

Postby mac5155 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:42 am

PensFanInDC wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Kaizer wrote:I find it hard to believe that very many people who arent in the vicinity of vatican city care that much who the pope is or whats going on with him.

I find it hard to believe that there are people who don't realize that organized religion, especially Roman Catholiic, are led by evil, corrupt, self-serving cabals. Who are the antithesis of JC's teachings. And who over time have changed the Bible to correspond to their own agendas.


I agree with a lot of this post except I wouldn't call it the "antithesis" as it's not 100% opposite of Christ's teachings. I also wouldn't agree that they changed the Bible. I would argue that they misinterpret it. But these are just my opinions.


I'll also add the word hypocritical in the mix as well.
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