Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby columbia on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:18 am

viva la ben wrote:Listening to Neal Huntington on the FAN, doesn't sound like Pedro/Boras is interested in a deal like what McCutchen got. Get ready for the yearly arbitration circus.


Future Yankee.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 49,410
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:13 pm
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:33 am

Alvarez is definitely a candidate to be traded next offseason if he wont sign a contract. Losing HR's will hurt the offense some, but replacing a sub .800 OPS guy is not hard to do over the course of an entire season. Ideally 1B, RF and SS (when Barmes played) wont be that unproductive ever again for this team. Hopefully some old school GM in love with HR offers up a top prospect for Alvarez between now and the end of 2016.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,243
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby beerman on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:37 am

I wouldn't sign Walker to an extension unless its dirt cheap. He's the perfect type of guy to go yearly with and then walk away in the end. He's already had back issues and slowed down significantly, age isn't going to be kind to him in a few years once he gets on the other side of 30 so I wouldn't commit to him.

Alvarez I'd like to see them sign but it won't happen because of Boras. They at least have control for a few more years and going year to year won't be an issue, plus as Troy mentioned you can always flip him and get a solid return due to the HR numbers and it wouldn't harm the offense much as long as the other positions have taken a step forward by that time.
beerman
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,243
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:43 am

year to year with Walker for sure. If they bring in a full time shortstop then Walker likely becomes an exclusive platoon guy with Mercer. He doesn't demand a huge commitment. Here are my contract priorities.

Marte under a team friendly deal to lock up a year or two of FA.
Get Morton under some sort of deal that prevents him from hitting FA next year.
Approach Burnett with a take it or leave it offer, if he declines hit the FA market for a 2014 starter.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,243
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:58 am

pirates prospects laid out a great, great case for not giving neil walker a deal. hes a good 2nd baseman, but that doesnt mean he deserves a contract that goes through his 32 or 33 year old seasons.
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,142
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:59 am

i think letting pedro go is a mistake
Letang Is The Truth
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 24,499
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:59 pm
Location: The Panda Will Fly Away On A Rainbow

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:00 am

also, giving a long term deal to pedro seems foolish as well. guys like him seem way to volitile to lock up for a long stretch like that. mark reynolds is the perfect example.
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,142
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:03 am

eh, the optimal solution is to get him signed to something now and buy out a year or two of FA. The worst case scenario is for the pirates to get into a Ryan Howard situation and pay him big money right when he's about to be a FA. But it takes two to get the deal done, Alvarez might not be interested in delaying his $100M conract.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,243
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:58 am

Letang Is The Truth wrote:i think letting pedro go is a mistake

I agree, back-to-back 30+ home run seasons are hard to come by. He's young and I think he's going to have a 40 home run season next year and hit .250. Good luck replacing that.
NashvilleCat
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,305
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 7:18 pm
Location: 4.5 hours south of Josh Harrison's hometown.

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:04 pm

Plus I think his defensive ineptitude is overblown
Letang Is The Truth
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 24,499
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:59 pm
Location: The Panda Will Fly Away On A Rainbow

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:12 pm

The defensive ineptitude might be a misconception, but a .300 obp is not worth $15M/year commitment.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,243
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby schreibdog on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:13 pm

NashvilleCat wrote:
Letang Is The Truth wrote:i think letting pedro go is a mistake

I agree, back-to-back 30+ home run seasons are hard to come by. He's young and I think he's going to have a 40 home run season next year and hit .250. Good luck replacing that.

And there's absolutely nothing in the system at 3B. http://players.piratesprospects.com/depth-chart

They'd have to sign someone (or trade for someone) and that's not really going to save them much money, if at all.
schreibdog
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,920
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:16 am
Location: South Park, PA

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:19 pm

Troy Loney wrote:eh, the optimal solution is to get him signed to something now and buy out a year or two of FA. The worst case scenario is for the pirates to get into a Ryan Howard situation and pay him big money right when he's about to be a FA. But it takes two to get the deal done, Alvarez might not be interested in delaying his $100M conract.


Boras was interested in a long term deal when Pedro was hitting under .200 and not showing a lot of power except for the occasional blast that made you think he cared. Then he caught fire, made the All Star team and hit 3 homers in 6 postseason games. Pedro has value now, so Boras won't be all that excited about a long term deal. Best case would be something that buys out his arbitration years and keeps his value reasonable.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,546
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:23 pm

note that kenny the kangaroo is far from a pedro basher.

supposedly he is arbitration eligible in 2014. hes going to get his chunk of flesh from the pirates assuming he has another 30+ home run season. that still wont convince this gentleman that his skill set can produce consistent results when he starts to reach the declining years in his career. he strikes out a ton and does not walk much at all. he has over 1800 plate appearances. hes not going to change for the better in either of these two categories
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,142
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:24 pm

Troy Loney wrote:The defensive ineptitude might be a misconception, but a .300 obp is not worth $15M/year commitment.


Pedro's value is in his power. He had the 3rd most homers in baseball in a park that isn't particularly hitter-friendly. Someone's going to pay him that money once he becomes a free agent.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,546
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:27 pm

Rocco wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:The defensive ineptitude might be a misconception, but a .300 obp is not worth $15M/year commitment.


Pedro's value is in his power. He had the 3rd most homers in baseball in a park that isn't particularly hitter-friendly. Someone's going to pay him that money once he becomes a free agent.


No one is going to dispute that someone will pay him. In this gentleman's opinion, it shouldnt be the buccos.
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,142
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:32 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:The defensive ineptitude might be a misconception, but a .300 obp is not worth $15M/year commitment.


Pedro's value is in his power. He had the 3rd most homers in baseball in a park that isn't particularly hitter-friendly. Someone's going to pay him that money once he becomes a free agent.


No one is going to dispute that someone will pay him. In this gentleman's opinion, it shouldnt be the buccos.


It likely won't be the Pirates. Though when he walks it will re-ignite the debate about whether the Nuttings care about winning so that will be fun.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,546
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby canaan on Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:28 pm

ive always wondered how pedro would react in a city with a high pressure media/fan base.
canaan
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 39,249
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:13 am
Location: H2S

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby columbia on Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:21 pm

He reacted pretty well in the playoffs, but I catch your drift.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 49,410
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:13 pm
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:00 pm

I always wondered how he would react to a situation where all that was important was him getting on base and a home run was of no benefit.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,970
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:08 pm

When is scoring a run not a benefit? Is this like the idea that home runs kill rallies?
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,546
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:06 pm

I'm thinking he means situations where his approach is all (HR) or nothing (K)... his plate approach could be looking to draw a walk or a base hit through the left side every once in a while, less of a risk to K if he shortens up in certain situations
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,881
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:09 pm

I can't believe I have to explain this, but anytime bottom of the 9th+, if you can't tie the game with one swing your only job is to get on base. You gain nothing by hitting a home run down 2+ and in fact are better of just being on base so that the pitcher has to deal with someone on base.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,970
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:19 pm

If you homer down 2, you're only down 1, meaning one swing of the bat ties the game. Wouldn't you rather your best power hitter cut the lead in half than be on first base (making him a GIDP candidate since he's slow) and then hoping lesser power hitters bring him home?

Or, to put numbers behind it:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/o ... &score2=-1

Image

So no, the numbers say pretty clearly a home run is better than a runner on base.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,546
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby skullman80 on Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:37 pm

Yeah I never understood why hitting a HR in the bottom of the 9th when you are down is a bad thing. Any run is a good thing at that point. Just silly baseball lore there.
skullman80
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,068
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:55 am
Location: New Kensington, PA

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


e-mail