Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:39 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
ulf wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Hopefully he fully intends to pitch in Pittsburgh but doesn't want to flat out say it and get low-balled.

If he goes somewhere else and we didn't give him a QO, that's bad asset management.

ehhh I think it would be more of aj being a hartnell than bad asset management. He's not worth 14 mil.


Its horrible asset management. He's easily worth more than 14 million and I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

I can't argue with this impeccable logic
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Sigh... Well THANK GOD WE GOT EDINSON FREAKING VOLQUEZ!!!!

I hate this so damn much...
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...


I want to see some logical reasoning behind why the Pirates should be overpaying Burnett because he was the heart and soul of the team?

The 2013 payroll, when all said and done, came in around 74.5 million. The 2014 payroll TODAY is at 73.8 million. Bucs have added like 8-10 million annually as the season progressed, which would take that number to around 82-84 million.

Is it realistic for the Pirates to have a payroll of over 91 million? (82 + 14 for AJ - 5 for Volquez assuming those signings were one or the other)
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby FreeCandy44 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:44 pm

The key word being "might". You never know...he "might" pitch at pnc again.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:46 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:
Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...


I want to see some logical reasoning behind why the Pirates should be overpaying Burnett because he was the heart and soul of the team?

The 2013 payroll, when all said and done, came in around 74.5 million. The 2014 payroll TODAY is at 73.8 million. Bucs have added like 8-10 million annually as the season progressed, which would take that number to around 82-84 million.

Is it realistic for the Pirates to have a payroll of over 91 million? (82 + 14 for AJ - 5 for Volquez assuming those signings were one or the other)


Yes, because they are getting an extra 25 million in TV revenue this year.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:46 pm

Sorry but while the Pirates did have a good year financially, they are still not in a position for their 3rd starter to be making 14.1 million.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:47 pm

Bioshock wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...


I want to see some logical reasoning behind why the Pirates should be overpaying Burnett because he was the heart and soul of the team?

The 2013 payroll, when all said and done, came in around 74.5 million. The 2014 payroll TODAY is at 73.8 million. Bucs have added like 8-10 million annually as the season progressed, which would take that number to around 82-84 million.

Is it realistic for the Pirates to have a payroll of over 91 million? (82 + 14 for AJ - 5 for Volquez assuming those signings were one or the other)


Yes, because they are getting an extra 25 million in TV revenue this year.


I use this comment as a filter for who does and doesn't understand baseball. Actually, I use it for who does and doesn't understand economics too.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:48 pm

25 million in TV revenue =/= 25 million in payroll and anyone who thinks that needs to enroll in some economics courses
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...


I want to see some logical reasoning behind why the Pirates should be overpaying Burnett because he was the heart and soul of the team?

The 2013 payroll, when all said and done, came in around 74.5 million. The 2014 payroll TODAY is at 73.8 million. Bucs have added like 8-10 million annually as the season progressed, which would take that number to around 82-84 million.

Is it realistic for the Pirates to have a payroll of over 91 million? (82 + 14 for AJ - 5 for Volquez assuming those signings were one or the other)


Yes, because they are getting an extra 25 million in TV revenue this year.


I use this comment as a filter for who does and doesn't understand baseball. Actually, I use it for who does and doesn't understand economics too.


So the 25 million doesn't matter? Got it.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Another day, another shifting of the goal posts.

Interestingly enough, those that continue to move the goal posts never provide a number for what they want the goal to be. They don't want to trap themselves in a corner when their original number is reached.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:51 pm

Bioshock wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...


I want to see some logical reasoning behind why the Pirates should be overpaying Burnett because he was the heart and soul of the team?

The 2013 payroll, when all said and done, came in around 74.5 million. The 2014 payroll TODAY is at 73.8 million. Bucs have added like 8-10 million annually as the season progressed, which would take that number to around 82-84 million.

Is it realistic for the Pirates to have a payroll of over 91 million? (82 + 14 for AJ - 5 for Volquez assuming those signings were one or the other)


Yes, because they are getting an extra 25 million in TV revenue this year.


I use this comment as a filter for who does and doesn't understand baseball. Actually, I use it for who does and doesn't understand economics too.


So the 25 million doesn't matter? Got it.


Be honest with me here, is that really what you took out of what I just said to you?
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Another day, another shifting of the goal posts.

Interestingly enough, those that continue to move the goal posts never provide a number for what they want the goal to be. They don't want to trap themselves in a corner when their original number is reached.


What are you talking about?
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby CERV96 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:55 pm

FreeCandy44 wrote:The key word being "might". You never know...he "might" pitch at pnc again.


For the Nationals maybe.

This makes me a sad panda. Always been a big AJ supporter.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:56 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:
Be honest with me here, is that really what you took out of what I just said to you?


No, I also took that you chose to insult me when i disagreed with you.

I'm not gonna continue to speak. later.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:57 pm

Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...


If the Pirates had given Burnett the qualifying offer he could still have gotten $20M from someone else. It might scare off Baltimore since it would cost them a first round pick, but it wouldn't cost Philly a first round pick and their GM still thinks they can win a title.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:57 pm

Insult you? You are aware that the players' portion of revenue across baseball in 2013 was around 45% at the most right? I've actually seen 42% in some reports.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:59 pm

You may not be, but I'm hoping you're aware that it isn't 100%
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:01 pm

Bioshock wrote:This news isn't even remotely surprising. When the Pirates refused to give a qualifying offer, it was just a matter of time before it bit them in the ass. Burnett at 14 Million is a bargain and if you think that's too much then you just don't get how high salaries are going in baseball. Burnett will easily get 15 million per season and could go as high as 20 million per.

The Pirates had their chance to get the heart and soul of their rotation for 14 million. Now, they will get nothing.

Sucks...

I should have been lost at 15 million but i stayed to 20 million. Wow
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:09 pm

Plus 100% of the 750 million dollar annual increase to the MLB Central Fund from TV contract revenue would have to be allocated to the 30 franchises, which is unrealistic.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:12 pm

So if you assume 100% goes to the teams (not realistic), the bucs get 25 million. If you assume 50% of that goes to the players (unrealistic) that's 12.5 million in payroll. Add that to the 2013 opening day payroll of 66 million, and you're at 78.5 million, 5 million more than where they are right now (which is still below where the opening day payroll will end up)
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:41 am

Mr. Colby wrote:So if you assume 100% goes to the teams (not realistic), the bucs get 25 million. If you assume 50% of that goes to the players (unrealistic) that's 12.5 million in payroll. Add that to the 2013 opening day payroll of 66 million, and you're at 78.5 million, 5 million more than where they are right now (which is still below where the opening day payroll will end up)

Quit wasting your time, it's not worth it. Another good season and then it'll be a failed off-season if we don't outbid everyone for Mike Trout and add on to PNC
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby pfim on Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:17 am

I think they probably should have qualified Burnett. $14 million is fair market value, it's a one year deal so there's little risk if he accepts it. The team is better off with him than without, not that I've see anyone argue the opposite.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:27 am

pfim wrote:I think they probably should have qualified Burnett. $14 million is fair market value, it's a one year deal so there's little risk if he accepts it. The team is better off with him than without, not that I've see anyone argue the opposite.


this is where the kangaroo stands. this gentleman isnt going to rant on about how nutting is cheap and not committted to winning, but burnett is a quality pitcher and if you want quality pitchers around, you have to pay them quality money. they already have 5 or 6 starters, but we all know many of those guys will get hurt. the pirates are indeed better of with him.

now, if he goes out and signs for 20 million, good for him and good for the pirates for not overspending. but $14 million? its not an outrageous price.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:15 am

I understand, I just don't like seeing them paying the 3rd starter that much dough. Now if Wandy doesn't stay healthy, Liriano flops and Taillon doesn't make it up in July.. I'll probably change my tune because we will be in a load of hurt.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby pfim on Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:38 am

ulf wrote:I understand, I just don't like seeing them paying the 3rd starter that much dough. Now if Wandy doesn't stay healthy, Liriano flops and Taillon doesn't make it up in July.. I'll probably change my tune because we will be in a load of hurt.


That argument seems a bit arbitrary though, I think. 2nd, 3rd, 4th starter, doesn't really matter. He'll pitch close to 200 innings and he'll pitch well enough to justify the contract based on the previous two years of results (I know, risky to say that, but it's a one year deal).

If they had taken that money and been able to sign a significant upgrade at another position like 1B, it would make more sense. But that hasn't happened and doesn't appear that it will. And I think there's practically no chance that Burnett signs with Pittsburgh now. He'll get a multi-year deal from someone if he wants it and there's no way the Pirates should do that, imo.
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